Pavements for people?

I think this is a very British problem caused by our crowded country/roads, years of underfunding of infrastructure and an integrated transport system. In other countries, public areas are peacefully shared.

There is a difference between a pavement and a shared path. Local authorities are increasingly creating shared paths because we need to promote cycling. Households no longer have one car but instead anything between 2 and 5, one for each member of the family. This is creating gridlock, anger and speeding on the roads and the massive problems of air pollution. The latter is hidden but causes major health problems and increased incidence of respiratory disease.

Yes, there is a new kind of cycle training (called Bikeability) once called cycle proficiency. For most who've posted here, you won't want to know that this teaches sharing the road space with cyclists taught to take the centre lane position when speeds are low. At 15mph, a fit cyclist has no problem with keeping up and there is no reason that a car should take priority. Cycle lanes are often badly maintained, stop abruptly, are parked on or simply don't exist, hence many able cyclists use the roads.

Cycling on pavements isn't acceptable but increasingly civil order is breaking down in the UK and people disregard others in many ways. Its especially bad in large, urban areas, ranting at cyclists who are just other humans trying to get about is a good example.

I think we should take a leaf out of the Danes' book. Everybody, from 0 -100 cycles in Copenhagen, some in trailers, and there are proper cycles lanes, everywhere - often 2 lane with traffic lights. I realise it is flat and they don't have our problems of very narrow medieval streets or hills to contend with but still if you make things easier for people to cycle safely it would encourage more of the sensible variety, like ourselves, to get on our bikes and use our polluting cars less.
I don't think there is any excuse for blocking pavements with cars.

I assume that the routes you describe are not pavements, as the Highway Code clearly states that 'You must not cycle on a pavement'. Canal towpaths and similar walkways are not pavements, and they are shared spaces where tolerance and good manners are required.

We may differ about whether ringing a bell to tell someone to move out of your way is good manners or not; but regardless, on a pavement (ie the path to the side of a carriageway) it is illegal to ride a bike. You can rubbish' that as much as you like, but it is in the Highway code.

Rubbish, there are MANY places where it is perfectly legal to cycle on the pavement. I can cycle from junction 34 of M4 into centre of Cardiff and then on to Penarth and out to Cardiff Bay and back to junction 34, a distance of 20 miles plus where I don't ever go on the road. The whole distance on shared trail and pavements. There are also many others routes that I use where I am legally allowed to use the pavement. I also don't expect to get off my bike to get around people I have as much right to be on these paths as you. All it needs is tolerance and some people just don't have that.

www.slatergordon.co.uk/media-centre/blog/2018/03/is-it-illegal-to-ride-your-bicycle-on-the-pavement/

* shouldn’t use their bells to alert other people that they are approaching (Doodledog )*

No, they should dismount and walk when passing pedestrians on a pavement. I have reposted the link that shows that it is illegal to ride a bike on a pavement, in case you missed it the first time.

It is against the law to cycle on the pavement I think! I agree that so many cyclists seem to think they are above it and don't observe the rules of the road or the Highway Code. It used to be that children were given cycling proficiency training at school but that seems to have gone out of the window!

I take note of what is said about cycle paths but they are to narrow for a cyclist and have a habit of just ending suddenly. Also cars park in them and so you have to move out into mainstream traffic so that is why we tend to cycle on the roads with the traffic.

Bells, well I always ring my bell when approaching someone, not for the them to get of the way as I can often just go around them but to WARN them I am about and not give them a shock.

We should in this country take on how Holland handles their thousands of cyclists. Shared paths in the town. and decent cycle lanes elwhere. Also the rule is motorist have to give way to cyclists. There seems to be no problems there with attitude from anyone and cyclist cycle happily around town centres and even shopping malls. Cycling is the way forward. And as for helmets, well the jury is out on that one and my cycling magazine recently had an article on why not to wear one.

Doodle we have shared pavements where I live. Part is marker off in lines for cycles and th rest for pedestrians. Pedestrians often stray across the lines so cyclists can warn them of their approach.

I’m quite shocked by the aggression in this thread towards cyclists in general. Yes, some are a pest but not the majority. Same as drivers, pedestrians, mobility scooters, etc..

hurdygurdy I would take issue with one point you made about using a bell on pavements to notify pedestrians of your imminent approach. Why are you ringing your bell? Presumably to get the pedestrian, who has every right to walk on the pavement, to move out of the way so that you, who should not be cycling on the pavement, don’t have the inconvenience of slowing down or stopping, getting off your bike and walking past the pedestrian. Why should we have to stop our walk and stand aside to make way for you?

Cyclists can be a menace,I loathe when they suddenly turn up behind me.Where we live, not in the UK, the worst thing at the moment is those electric scooters everyone seems to be using ,and they are used on pavements, not only that,they are dumping them everywhere,they just get off them and leave them on pavements outside shops, this has become so dangerous for people, especially partially sighted people,they are a complete menace,and need to be stopped.

In London there is a fixed penalty for parking a car/van etc. on the pavement. There is talk of legislation coming into force for the rest of the Country. The sooner the better. I was a cyclist and rode on the road, not on the footway. Cars parked across cycle lanes don't help, though. Through disability, I have recently taken to using a mobility scooter and have found that there are many inconsiderate motorists that block the pavements necessitating my having to ride in the road. I am restricted to 4mph on the pavement, but rarely reach that speed. On the road, I am allowed to do 8mph, which is a dangerous speed, as it is far too slow and frustrates drivers behind me, so I tend to stick to the 4mph on footways. There are cyclists that come up behind me and aren't very happy about having to leave the footway and go into the road, to pass me. The footpaths in my area are in a terrible state and people would pay money to go to Alton Towers for the same sort of scary ride. Police can deal with motorists that drive on the footway but the parking is down to the local authority, at the moment. Mind you, I am not sure how the vehicle could be parked on the pavement, unless it had been driven there!

I used to cycle (when my eyesight was better) and have NEVER used the pavement - other than when a cycling lane is provided, together with pedestrian access.

I do firmly believe that pedal cycles (and Motor Bikes) should only be sold after the prospective owner has completed a proficiency test. A Certificate should be given on completion. If everyone did this, there would, in my opinion, be fewer problems on the roads and pavements by cycle users. It is quite simply wrong that anyone can purchase a bike and walk away and use this, without necessarily having any knowledge of how to use the road, or indeed the Highway Code.

Half the time round here, the pavement just disappears, caused by two-wheel parking next to a hedge which has been allowed to bush out halfway across the pavement. I’m sure that those hedge owners should be cutting them back to be in line with the boundary of their property, and not letting them take over half the pavement.

And as far as cyclists go - such a lack of tolerance on this thread.

If I understand some of the posts on this thread correctly, cyclists
•shouldn’t be on the road OR the pavement (Jane10 and Craftycat),
• shouldn’t be allowed on a bike at all ( Chestnut ),
•shouldn’t use their bells to alert other people that they are approaching (Doodledog ),
•should not ride 2 abreast on a country road ( Reelashosser ) (Highway Code says - give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car (see Rules 211 to 215). Riding two abreast is safer for cyclists as it makes them as wide as a car and stops vehicles from passing in places that are too narrow for safety
•shouldn’t make themselves as visible as possible (and therefore safe) by using bright lights at night ( 4allweknow ),
•are smug and have a holier-than-thou attitude because they don’t use polluting vehicles (sweeping generalisation!) ( Margs )
•and shouldn’t be taught how to use the roads safely during cycling proficiency training, because it causes the motorist to have to wait a short while Riggie )

And according to Missfoodlove, no one else should be on the pavement at all as the full width plus any grass verge are required for her and her dog,

Barmeyoldbat has written a perfect post

Yehbutnobut wins my vote for this most reasonable post
“I think this all comes down to having respect for others. If the motorists drove more carefully then cyclists wouldn’t need to ride on the pavements. If those who few do ride on the pavement had more respect for pedestrians then there would be no accidents.”

I cycle to and from work. Fortunately for me, of the three mile journey each way, two and a half of them are on a dedicated cycle path with no traffic. However, the other half mile is along roads and I don’t think motorists realise (or, actually, care) about the dangers for cyclists on them. Potholes, which are an irritation for motorists, can be lethal for cyclists. Drains at the side of the road can be dropped, or filled with puddles and therefore invisible, and also lethal – which is why most cyclists should ride well away from the pavement edge.

The alternative route I can take is all road or shared space pavement, and Doodlebug, I have to ask, just how I should be alerting people to the fact that I am approaching them from behind. I use my bell for the safety of both me and pedestrians, but maybe you could tell me what I should be doing, if using a bell is unacceptable.

Motorists seem to treat cyclists as target practice and forgive me, but is there an unwritten rule that the competition is to see who can get closest to a cyclist without actually touching them? Or who can cause a cyclist to wobble because of the air movement when a vehicle speeds past?

I have had drivers pull straight out of their driveways and out of side streets into my path (whilst I was riding on the road – with bright lights on to make myself as visible as possible ). Personally I don't think motorists should be allowed to drive unless they have been cyclists first (tongue in cheek - but maybe not too far fetched a suggestion)

It is illegal for cars etc to park on the kerb. They can be fined for doing this.

Yesterday a man on a child's scooter came right up behind me on the pavement and made me jump. A few yards later he threw it down in the middle of the pavement and went into a shop. So thoughtless, anyone could easily have gone flying over it.

Lots of building work going on. Builders vans, delivery lorries skip trucks etc all over the place. On a mobility scooter i often have to take to the road. I can go at 4mph cyclists overtake frighteningly. I hate going on the road to pass pavement parking. On the pavement people texting or just looking at their phones with no care for their surroundings are my concern. I just stop and let them walk into me or see me in time. Even pushing pushchairs they are only interested in their phones. I have been bumped even when i am saying excuse me i am here.

I think if there is a cycle lane then cyclist must use it. There is a stretch of road with a steep hill and a cycle path but cyclist still insist on cycling up the hill on the road ending up with a line of cars and lorries not able to pass. Cars are parking two wheels on pavements to not block roads the only answer will be yellow lines and residents parking.

I was crossing the road where there was a pedestrian island in the middle. A cyclist rode through the other way and whacked my arm with his handlebars. He shouted "Sorry" as he disappeared, but never bothered to find out if I was injured. He could easily have broken my arm, but luckily I only had a huge bruise.
Another time I stopped to wait to cross the road as the traffic lights were changing and my dog (still a puppy) sat obediently next to me. A cyclist behind me decided to race across in front of the cars and rode over my dog's tail. Incredibly he had a small child on his handlebars. My dog yelped and jumped into the road. Fortunately the people in the first car saw what had happened and were visibly shocked. They allowed me to sort my poor dog out before they moved off. She was always scared of bikes after that experience.

One problem with cars straddling pavements is that modern cars do not fit into garages. The spec for garages was decided when cars were much smaller and has never been updated. As a result a new housing estate of 31/2 thousand near me has been built, all with garages, but only a handful of cars will fit .
Builders are not interested in building larger garages as it means that they can cram fewer houses in. Therefore the narrow estate roads are filled with cars on pavements so buses can squeeze by

I blame the county planners in part for allowing such narrow roads on new estates. I know the driver is the one directly at fault though, and I've no doubt many of them suffer from scratches caused by passing pedestrians with buckles on handbags, etc.
Fortunately I'm in an area where there are no pathways really, only verges and they're verges that are not designed to make it a comfortable ride for a cyclist so they tend to stick to the road. And in my local town it's mobility scooters that cause more accidents than cyclists (as an occasional mobility scooter user myself this is in no way a criticism of them, just stating facts.)

I think this all comes down to having respect for others. If the motorists drove more carefully then cyclists wouldn’t need to ride on the pavements. If those who few do ride on the pavement had more respect for pedestrians then there would be no accidents.

I have a huge bruise on my shin when a mobility scooter hit me yesterday. She was reversing trying to get around a car parked on the pavement.

Liz46

We have exactly the same problem, give it a couple of days with all this rain, and it’ll look like a ploughed field!

This however, made me furious, once I’d stopped shaking. I had four children with me, one in a pushchair, and we were walking to the village park. We came across a van, reversed into a drive, completely covering the pavement, and into the road. I halted all the children, and when I saw behind us that the road was clear, I told them to go, the youngest one misunderstood the situation, and ran across the road, a car coming in the opposite direction had to break sharply, he panicked, I abandoned all the others to get to him, I felt sick and shaky, it was horrible.

He could so very easily have been hit, I’m aware that I obviously didn’t explain the situation to him properly, so have to take some blame, but I was furious with the van driver, still am.

I am a disabled person who walks using crutches. I have been knocked down twice by cyclists. One of these times i was standing at a crossing waiting for the lights to change for me to cross. I was knocked over from behind by a cyclist who was going so fast rhey couldnt stop. The female cyclist starting shouting at me saying it was my fault, i should have moved out of her way etc. People who came to get me up where very angry with her, pointing out that i couldnt see behind me and she should have stopped long before she hit me. The cyclist just rode quickly away leaving me injured and very upset. My own belief is that cyclists should have insurance and have a registration similar to a car for their safety as well as everyone else!

Smug motorists more like. I personally had two friends killed while cycling in roads. In both instances the drivers were found to be at fault. One was a middle aged woman the other an OAP.

Because a few cyclists give the rest a bad name (like every sphere of life) then we get the sort of attitude that creates antipathy towards cyclists as a whole. This can translate into some motorists deliberately driving badly to scare them.

Shocking Margs that you seem to feel that way too

It's high time cyclists were called out and made to adhere to the same legislation as motor vehicles, ie: road tax, registration plates, MOT, insurance.

Their holier-than-thou smugness about not polluting the environment like cars is wiped out by their antics on pavements and not having to stick to any of the rules in the above paragraph.