Unbelievable description

Thanks, Alexa

Keeper1
Probably yes, nature would take over and regulate the numbers.
I don't see it as a bad thing.

I guess if we were all to become Vegan then all or most of the cattle, sheep, goats etc would die out?

gmarie, good posts!

Noted.

Being called harsh myself, I don't mind her asking.
I got it as a direct question, not harsh

Sorry, janipat . Didn't mean to single you out. I just responded to the latest back and forth. It's frustrating, sometimes, when you're in the minority on an issue and feel like you're being called upon to justify your choices. This just sounded a little harsh:

So are you saying you're happy for animals to be farmed and slaughtered to feed your cats Hithere?

Pretty sure that, given what Hithere has said in her posts, she's not "happy" for animals to be slaughtered.

Hithere thanks for your honesty, and I can sympathise with your difficult choice. I'm not a fan of indoor cats, thinking it is an unnatural way of life for them, but that's another issue, and in truth we had an indoor cat when I was growing up. Of course you just want what's best for your pets.

gmarie You haven't questioned anyone else "pressing their point". I make 2 posts and you jump on me??????

Janipat is it necessary to press your point? Surely at our age we realize that virtually nothing is cut and dry with regard to our choices and beliefs when life rarely serves up situations that are like math problems to be solved neatly with no loose ends. We can only do the best we can and make conscious choices that cause the least harm and suffering in any given situation.

Janipat, we (and dogs) are omnivores, so there's a choice. My dog is fed on Fish4dogs (salmon, potato and pea, no cereal).

My cat, being a carnivore (with no choice) is fed raw wild poultry/birds (pigeon, pheasant, grouse) from the local veg/cereal farm. They are free of cost, and killed anyway to protect the crops. I have no problem with that.

No, I am very unhappy. And yes, it is a dilemma I had to make peace with.
They are indoor cats so no chance of hunting.

But what are my options? My cats have been with me for 10+ years. They are my family and I love them.

Do I feed them a plant diet and get them sick? That would be very selfish of me
Do I rehome them?

I used leather items for many years due to the lack of choices.
Now, we have shoes, bags, clothing, etc and I am thrilled.

I am excited to see what the future brings

So are you saying you're happy for animals to be farmed and slaughtered to feed your cats Hithere? Your cats would soon learn to hunt rodents and birds if they needed to. I'm omnivore so luckily don't face that dilemma.

As a vegetarian, my kids are veggie too. They will of course choose what they want to eat in the future when they grow up.

My cats? No, unfortunately.
There is no alternative plant based for them and their health and comfort is not worth sacrificing for my morals. I love them and i want the best for them.

So summarizing- as long as there is a healthy alternative to animal choices that does not compromise health, I follow it.
No alternative? Hoping it will be available in the future

I assume vegans and vegetarians do not feed their pets, if they have any, on meat. They'd surely not approve of animals being farmed, killed and processed for other animals while decrying it when done for human consumption? Any animal that is an obligate carnivore, such as a cat, would have to hone its hunting skills.

Why are vegan foods now called plant
Eg 'Plant Chef', 'Plant Based Range' 'Plant Kitchen' etc

Why not 'Vegan'

Plants to me are all kinds of garden plants, vegetable and non-edible.

There is an urgent recall on many pestos from most supermarkets if anyone has missed that
May contain peanuts

Yes, MOnica, I see now what you mean.

Wouldn’t think so for one moment but I am so pleased that they did.
It was so wrong to use the vegan label.

Do you think your thread made them decide to do that?

Back to my original point, M&S are now describing the tote bag as faux leather.
What a pity they didn’t say that in the first place.

Alexa. You do not get my point.

In the future we will have far fewer cattle, which because they are not fed on soya and maize,but only graze on_ pasture land that is not suitable for arable crops_ supplemented by hay from similar pasture will have a far smaller environmental footprint.

Most of the arable land currently growing maize and soya to feed cattle will be free to grow arable crops to feed humans and it will not be necessary to bring more land into arable use because there will be sufficient and there may be surplus land may well be returned to woodland and jungle.

Already meat consumption is starting to drop in some countries, including the UK. worldpreservationfoundation.org/business/meat-in-decline/ . There is no reason to think this will not continue.

Mulesing is hideous and if anyone knows what it is and does not shudder there is something wrong with their imagination.

Monica, there is not enough pasture in the world for all the food animals. Even now they are cutting down rain forest to make cow pasture.

Yehbutnobut, I fail to see an argument for mulesing. It's just not logical to say that it (along with shearing) prevents flystrike when we've deliberately bred animals to have these problems. Wild sheep don't have excessive coats.

We are only interested in what they can produce for us.
If we were really concerned for their welfare, we'd selectively breed out their problems. But no, lets just remove some skin!

Your earlier comment made me laugh:

'I once saved a sheep’s life. Walking through a field I found it stranded, turtle-like, in its back'

Why was it waterlogged/stuck? Because (again) we've created these unnatural creatures that require interventions to survive!

Mommawolf

you are correct health issues very much come into diet choices....in fact that it why mine changed.

Hetty you clearly did not see my follow up post. You said ‘removal of skin’ you omitted to say that it was limited to a small area around their anus.