Is it so wrong to fly?

I know this thread is about flying but giving up meat has been mentioned.
A letter in the Times this morning points out that if we don’t have grazing animals we will lose organic fertilisers and have to rely on artificial fertilisers and deadly pesticides.
There is 3 times as muchCO2 in the ground as in the atmosphere and land controlled by grazing animals is the most fertile on the planet.
The writer goes on to say that veganism will not save the planet. In fact the opposite is true!!!

My!,not his. So who do we believe? Like many of you we have cut down on meat but we aren’t giving it up completely.

Alexa- maybe it is incongruous to be flying to Australia at the moment but we booked this trip quite a while ago and can’t afford to pay for another flight later in the year.
If you would like to reimburse me then I promise to postpone it.

I intend to fly off on holiday abroad this year for the first time in 8 years. Emma Thomson and the like can take one less flight to compensate mine.

I wonder how many people actually reduce their flying/travel on environmental grounds? I don't fly and haven't done for a decade which should give me brownie points except I don't fly for medical reasons. When I look around I see my neighbours drive the biggest cars possible, have many annual flights etc. I can't see any environmental awareness. In light of this recycling the Christmas cards seems like small beer. I don't think we will see major/impactful changes on a voluntary basis.

We need to fly as my daughter. Son in Law and Grandaughter live in Switzerland.
It would be difficult to get there by train.
However I don't drive and do lots of walking or use public transport.
My husband does drive but we don't use the car for short journeys

Exactly Maggiemaybe- we each have to assess our own situation and do what we can ...

For me, Paris is less than 3 hours by TGV, with a short bus journey to station. And for London and Midlands, I have to take car and travel 1.30 to 2 hrs to airport in Geneva- be there well advance, apy a fortune for car park- or take bus then 2 trains, which is even more time consuming and expensive- then same at other end ...which takes all day of stress and worry- or I can get on TGV, change in Paris and get to St Pancras, then jump on train to our town in East Mids- takes all day too- but so easy, watch the countryside, read, sleep ...Great.

M0nica quite right I do hope us pining long distance grannies are excluded from this latest trend. And if we are not, then 'frankly my dear I don't give a damn!'

Whilst realising that ‘every little helps’ ( to pinch the Tesco motto) we should all realise that whatever we do here on our tiny island is but a drop in the ocean compared to the rest of the world.

I take your point jura but I think, on the whole, the thread is very reasonable.

I was horrified by a report on the local news about all the food waste post-Christmas and New Year

Apart from a couple of bananas and a limp pepper I don't think we've thrown much out at all, definitely no more than usual.

What is meant by 'extreme to extreme' is - going from full meat eaters to being vegan, or from keen frequent flyers to no flying at all.

We just have to do whatever we can. It’s a cop out to say the task is too big or other people don’t so why bother. But we have to be practical.

I walk or use public transport whenever possible, recycle, eat very little meat, don’t buy things I don’t need, or food that’s travelled halfway round the world if there’s an alternative.

But to go to Paris, I wouldn’t even consider Eurostar and the eight hour journey by taxi and train to get to London and back, when I can catch the bus to the local airport for a flight that takes just 1 hour 30 minutes.

extreme to extreme

my comment was jokey.
The Alps do look very sharp though.

Why doe these threads always describe extreme to extreme?

There is nothing wrong with re-assessing your carbon footprint, including flying. So we have- we won't fly long distance unless it is for 3 weeks or more. And we won't fly across Europe if we can do so by train, or night train- as it is short flights that are the most polluting proportionally. The EU is working hard to cut price of inter EU flights and re-introduce night flights- and that is grand.

For us, it is actually easier to take the train to London and the East Midlands, than the plane. About the same time when all counted in, and about the same price if we book early, all counted in. Flight may seem cheaper, but by the time you cost getting to and from airport, + car-parking charges, petrol, etc, not. EU trains are like EasyJet in as much as booking 90 days in advance gives our the best price.

The textile industry is a really bad one. And not only from an environmental point of view but thousands of people are exploited by it.

Reducing purchases of clothing is a good start. If you need say, a t-shirt, buy an organic cotton one. It may not be perfect but is better option.

Source ethical clothing brands - the ones founded on ethical principles. Obviously there's plenty of greenwashing but if we all do the best we can when we have choices to make, we may find things at least stop getting worse.

My son says that computers and all that goes with it (servers, internet, bitcoin, phones) are hugely problematic in terms of both resources and energy. I think this is going to be an even bigger problem as the poorer nations grow.

A points system would be unwieldy, bureaucratic and open to abuse sadly. Plus, if you had family living on another continent you’d be screwed before you even got started!

Re the points system, perhaps you could buy some from others, like the celebs do by offsetting their constant jetsetting with carbon credits.

I wouldn't like to be let out over the Siberian tundra or on top of an Alp.

Air conditioning is the biggest contributor to environmental damage that's fairly easy to modify, reduce or eliminate.

Perhaps some sort of points system would work, where you were given so many to spend in a year?

X amount on heating/electricity, Y on fuel or miles by bus/train/plane, Z on clothing/food - that way people who were economical in some areas could ‘waste’ their points in others without all the tut-tutting that goes on now!

I have friends and family who don’t fly as often as I do but they drive huge gas guzzlers and live in huge houses with astronomical heating bills. It’s too easy to expect other people to cut back and not look at your own consumption isn’t?

Sanity indeed! The whole concept is so vast that it is hard to do anything - and easy to try and let it float by on the grounds that as individuals we can do nothing.

I have a SisIL who ignores the whole thing - she recycles absolutely nothing, wastes food by the bucketload etc. - I remember watching her one day and being both horrified and envious - how wonderful to feel so guilt free!

Have just read in the Telegraph that textile production produces more carbon dioxide than international flights and maritime shipping combined (1.2 billion tons annually).
Perhaps we should all think about this before buying another new item to wear.

I apologise Luckygirl I really didn’t mean to sound quite so flippant. You are right of course.

However, yesterday in The Guardian were distressing photos of beaches in what was beautiful Indonesia - plastic waste and a colossal dumping ground. And along the Ganges - rubbish & filth and chemical waste just dumped.

I do worry but feel inadequate. I have to do my best, make choices as best I can and switch off for my sanity’s sake.

I guess if you asked Greta Thunberg then the answer would be a resounding YES but for the rest of us going about our normal lives in the real world, it’s a different story.

Actually with the Paris example I would use Eurostar rather than flying, but in most instances flying is the only viable option.

We are flying to the Med in the Summer to join our cruise ship so I guess that is us doubly dammed by some!!

I do walk a lot locally rather than take the car which helps to keep me fit as well as doing my bit as it were.

Isn't it incongruous to be flying to Australia of all places ?

Walk everywhere, wear a hair shirt and live in a yurt? - it is that sort of reductio ad absurdum that is holding us back from doing the right things.

It is very hard indeed to give up anything that we have become used to because these things have become a integral part of our lives. But we can help in our own small ways and they all accumulate to make a difference, and are absorbed into a new reality.

Look at the supermarket plastic bag thing - it has caught on and supermarkets treat bringing in your own bags as the norm now, rather than raising an eyebrow.

We have to plough on with what we can do for the sake of our GC. I know that every little thing we do can have knock-on adverse consequences too - e.g. fewer flights mean staff will be laid off in so many industries. But we have hit a point where we cannot ignore all this any more.

Huge painful changes for many - but can we seriously ignore what is happening?

Monica wrote:

"In the war there was an advert that said 'Is your journey really necessary?' I think that is what should guide our decisions now."

It is completely appropriate to compare the urgent emergency state of climate change to war time conditions. The war time frame of mind may be the only way people can stop over use of carbon fuel.

Well, if I want to get on a plane and fly to Australia to see my daughter and grandchildren, then I will. Will also fly premium economy. I do my best in other ways to help the planet. Life’s too short to miss out on such things.