Table manners

I always use a knife and fork, can't eat my dinner properly without it. Sadly my DH seems to have reverted to childhood and asks for a spoon as well! Hate it

I would expect children to ask if they can leave the table at the end of a meal, also to use a knife and fork.

No stuffing their mouths full, or eating with them open.

Apart from that, the rest of the 'rules' aren't necessary, as far as I'm concerned, as long as it doesn't impact on others at the table.

I thought the elbows was to do with guns and supposedly gentlemen would be honourable while dining and not shoot so could be temporarily trusted to have hands out of sight.

Which makes it a nonsense rule to take into today

There are various theories as to why the no elbows rule exists. One is that in ancient times, tables were merely planks of wood balanced on a flat surface, so if you rested your elbow on the top you risked up ending the entire kit-and-kaboodle!

Another theory is that keeping your elbows off the table meant you weren’t about to launch an attack on a fellow diner, but as we don’t take swords to the table nowadays, that isn’t an issue any more.

There’s also the smelly armpit theory, also consigned to the past, I hope.

That was for Lindyloo.

You are right. The placing together of knives and forks at the end of the meal (in Britain) is a signal for the waiter or anyone in charge that you have finished. That’s good manners isn’t it?

In fact, holding your knife in the palm of your hand and not like a pencil makes practical sense for cutting. The pencil position is false ‘refinement’. Even my father knew that and he was no aristocrat?

I haven’t seen people eating the way you describe, but my late husband held table manners in such high esteem it has left its mark on me. The children had to say “Please may I leave the table?” when they finished and we carried on eating, no holding knives like pencils, salt cellar removed for pudding etc etc., I could go on and on...
So I’m really squeamish when my grandson waves his knife and fork around (looks dangerous too) or people start eating without waiting for others to be served. Good manners should obviously be about not offending others and not snobbery.
Staying with friends in America, I tried eating American style (when in Rome) Not DH; his way or the highway! And let’s not start on phones at the table ?

The 'no elbows on table' rule just doesn't exist. Somebody (ignorant) made it up sometime, that's all. Table manners are merely cultural differences anyway.

My Indian friend was put out that I used a knife and fork. She said the curry just wouldn't taste right unless I adopted the habit of using a piece of bread as a scoop/spoon. She was quite correct too - it does taste better!

exactly Notanan2, and Paddyanne, well said.

some people like to make and maintain shibboleths.

I have always hought that unless a table is over-crowded, meaning that each diner has restricted space, the 'no elbows on the table' is a ridiculous, pointless rule, and I will make no attempt to obey it unless I am the guest of someone who would be bothered by it.

I would almost expect you to tell them to "sit" and "paw" next

I do not understand that "rule" polly. Adults dont ask to leave the table so why make children do it?
What is the point? IMO its a rule for the sake of a rule and serves no purpose.

We do teach our children to wait until everyone is finished. Which makes sense because thats what adult diners do. But we dont make them chime "may we leave the table" just because theyre children, thats all a bit Miss Hannigan for my liking and just serves to make the children behave subserviant rather than as equal diners with the same behaviour expectations as the adults.

Good manners at Grandma's.All our grandchildren ask to leave the table after finishing a meal at our house and their parents all say, "they never say that at home."

Too many parents opt out of the time taken to teach their children properly

Its not laziness if its an active choice.
A lot of old etiquette rules were there to denote class, caste and seniority and people reject that now.
Also a lot of people who were raised being shamed for nonsense rules actively decide to not do that to their children. Its not "not bothered", they ARE bothered, and dont want to be that awful pendant that they had in their own upbringing.

So long as people are nice to each other at the table, gracious to the cook and don't make a mess, I'm happy with that. Pendants are rarely nice to others so IMO make the rudest dinner companions of all.

My father was so strict on table manners. One little misdemeanour - and I mean little - and I was sent to the kitchen to eat alone.
However - you can take me anywhere without fear of embarrassment ???

Five Guys sounds a bit like that Fry's chocolate bar - Five Boys.

I think I'll give them a miss though.

You’ve been warned, Callistemon!

I wish I hadn't read that SueDonim!

I quite like a whopper lol but a very rare treat x

he does do a bit of slurping too lemongrove
Comes from mixing with a lot of Italians too.

If you want a really bad burger, try Five Guys! They wrap them up in foil so by the time you come to eat it, it’s soggy with condensation and as slimy as frog spawn.

Callistemon your DGS is very clever to do that.?

I make burgers in buns at home if we want one.Sainsbury or Waitrose do lovely large meaty burgers.

Funny you should say that Daisy, as about 20 years ago I was in a distant city for a couple of days, and wanted something quick and easy to eat and saw a Wendys.It was really delicious and surprised me.
Since then, never came across another Wendys, although I may google and see where they are.
Had a McD burger about 25 years ago ( awful) and the only one since then was just before Christmas, and other people I was with wanted one, so I did too, it was even worse than I remembered.Pale, half cold fries, and a tiny flat tasteless meat patty in the bun.Never again!