Robbie Williams and surrogacy

But they did deal with infertility? That’s why they’ve used a surrogate.

Yes of course, the OP was about surrogacy, and in fact, Robbie Williams and his wife already had two children. Were the surrogate children theirs genetically? Does that make a difference?

It's simply the natural result of a capitalist society. No different to a woman selling sex or drug companies charging a fortune for drugs. Everything has a price. And just as rich people can pay to have their houses cleaned and their children schooled, they can pay for babies. No doubt as with everything else there will be incredibly successful surrogacy and absolute failures and most will be somewhere in between.

Excuse me, but in the original case, there was no infertility and no adoption. I don't believe anybody is minimising the heart ache or complexity of these situations. I object to wealthy, influential people buying babies.

My younger daughter had 12 rounds of IVF, 3 miscarriages . H

If adoption is so damaging to a child I should be relieved she didn’t adopt , I am not ,i so wish she had

Babbity, no one would pretend that adoption is the ideal, but it is far less damaging than being left with a parent who cannot stop damaging the child. Once adopted the healing can begin.

I have a son who adopted a child and as I know the circumstances, no one is going to tell me that our grandchild would have been better off with his natural mother.
I also have a daughter who has three children via IVF. She also had failed IVF rounds. We could afford to pay, not everyone can. The pain of infertility is real, and I’m not sure those who have not experienced it, or watched a beloved child go through it, I’m not sure they can understand.

Of course it bloody is!
Anyone who goes through adoption is drilled, educated and flooded with information about how damaging adoption is for children. But it’s a necessity. There is no other reasonable option.

So adoption is damaging for the child ?

That’s the point of an abortion. There is no baby

As I’ve said. Newborns being removed from their mother have been shown to exhibit trauma similar to that of an adopted child.
It’s selfish. Pure selfishness.
Nobody is entitled to children. Just because you can doesn’t mean you should.

And ‘reasonable expenses’ can hit £15K. How many here had a pregnancy that cost that much?
And that it’s they’re in the UK. In other countries like America it’s just seen as a financial transaction.

Some countries have banned the practice outright and I would very much support the UK following that.

Yes maddy the pain of infertility is heartbreaking, the hope
the IVF will work this time, it doesn’t, the joy when it is successful followed by the pain of miscarriages, the acceptance
there will never be a much longed for child.

Celebrities are all entitled, I suppose, to a greater or lesser extent.
If you have money, time, and everything needed to make life comfortable, then why wouldn't you.

I do think Robbie is a total w**k* though.

They have two natural children,they appear to be doing what celebs do and having someone else do the hard work of carrying,giving birth and losing the unwated baby weight afterwards.I do have sympathy with infertile couples but this IS a couple who believe they are entitled like many other big names

Yes, Annie, I have been there and got the tee shirt. It’s indescribably difficult to watch the pain of infertility.

No Barmyoldbat it is not ‘I want and I shall have ‘ , it is not
entitlement.

It is illegal to pay a surrogate, reasonable expenses are allowed.

How many here have supported their daughter through years
of infertility and all the decisions that come with it ?

How many are infertile ?

What on Earth was he doing in the birthing room, singing and behaving badly? I didn’t know anything about it until now.

Perhaps some people don’t understand the pain of infertility. Not that RW hadn’t already got children apparently.

Its entitlement, I want and I shall have and this is just money talking. I just don't believe in this rent a womb business , there are enough children looking for adoption but then they just want a mini me, sorry 4 mini me's.

Is the critcism against surrogacy, wealth or Robbie Williams?

If the lady in question already has two natural children and wants more surely the answer is to adopt a child with no family I don’t think it’s something that should have a fanfare of coverage
I too saw an extract of that hideously sexual song with a member of the audience greymar he was vile and just put him even further down in my estimations I hope the children don’t grow up to ever see that I also saw a video of him in the birthing room with one of their natural babies and he was vile putting her down and making awful jokes about her and singing and taking the limelight while the poor woman was panting and sweating in the background
Awful way to conduct yourself in the public eye

Sorry, I don't have the energy for this. I don't think paying for a baby is right.

So women grieving for the loss of their baby, still birth or
miscarriage are being silly, they are grieving for a foetus, when pregnant we don’t feel our baby kick we feel a foetus move.

I don't think we need such emotive language as " move heaven and earth " to support a woman who chooses/needs termination and " condems" surrogacy.

Annie, the example you gave of a family member considering surrogacy for a sibling is differet from rich and famous people basically buying babies.

As an aside, I think RW stage show was absolutley filthy in places and I saw him on a chat show making a vile " joke" about having anal sex with his wife who had recently given birth.

The research I'm aware of that points to emotional/psychological difficulties in babies removed from their mother at birth is based on attachment theory. I haven't seen research that says babies born to surrogates have similar difficulties.
I don't have any difficulty though, in accepting that children born through surrogacy or sperm donation will have many questions about their heritage. No matter how well life parents help their children understand how they came to grow up away from birth family, questions will remain. I need to stress that I know many adopted children, now adults, who have strong attachments to their adoptive parents and live happy, fulfilled lives.

I'm far more worried about all the children who don't even have enough to eat, clean water, peace and security. Some are born into this uncaring world with all the odds stacked against them.