HMRC

My sympathy to small business owners who have to deal with HMRC and other officials, it’s easy to get affairs into a tangle from your side. Sometimes it’s their side that is wrong, unless you are very familiar with the system pay someone who knows how to handle it.
My eldest daughter handles tax for about a dozen small businesses, she says, everything is on computer theses days, get it right, no problems. If the computer flags up a problem correcting it can be very stressful, because they will come up with some random figure and you have to prove them wrong.

No excuse for rudeness though.

@craftyone, I’m sorry that your in laws have treated you this way; I’m not going to deny that there were a few rotters working in HMRC, but you find this in all walks of life. Many of my friends are ex HMRC and I do not choose to associate with arrogant or scrounging types, my friends are all honourable people.

my bil was a tax inspector, he used to rub his hands in glee when talking about getting money out of people, he is a nasty bit of **. He never once got in touch after his brother, my husband died. They used to be good `friends`. His partner was also a tax inspector, she was planning ahead to retirement, said she would have no savings visible and would claim all the benefits going. Both were horrible, slimy, arrogant people and he was always pontificating from his pedestal

I’m sorry, I’m late coming to this thread but as an ex HMRC employee I had to say something. You are bound to know this already, but over the last 15 years or so most local tax offices have been closed and the work transferred to large centres. People who had spent their whole working life in a local office were either made redundant or had to travel long distances to one of the call/processing centres. Most took the redundancy as the centres were too far away for daily travel. When these people left, years and years of experience went with them and new staff were brought in to work in the centres. These people received some basic training but the turnover of staff has been high. Whereas people used to know who they would be seeing in their local office they are now speaking to an unknown individual and unlikely to get the same person twice. It’s a sad state of affairs. Not only has the personal touch gone from local offices, but the staff who pursued the non compliant people have gone as well.

I had an absolutely lovely man help me by phone when I was all in a tizzy about working tax credit.

At the end of the call, he said "well, that's it then, the form is done".

I was amazed, because during our chat he had been filling out the long, long form on my behalf.

Again though, some need a good lesson in customer service. There are ways to impart information in a respectful, empathetic way.

I’ve never had a nice polite person answer whenever I’ve called HMRC, it’s almost like it’s one of the requirements to get the job... miserable... rude... patronising with no personality and god forbid if you try and be friendly.

Do you know what, there is no excuse for rudeness and if you make a formal complaint, as others have said, they will be able to listen to the call and that person will be dealt with. However, I do take issue with the way people spout about ‘nasty training’ (obviously not) Also the ‘I pay your wages’ mentality (is that so?). It will probably make me very unpopular and I’m not suggesting for one minute that this is the case in gillybobs example, but in my experience a lot of people interpret what they are told as rude if it’s not what they want to hear. I work in government and part of my role is investigating complaints. I spend a lot of time listening back to phone calls where staff are accused of rudeness. A lot of our callers owe a lot of money. That is why they are calling and that’s great, that is our job and we are there to help people out with advice, applying for benefits, making payment plans etc. Mostly it goes well as the staff are well trained and happy to help. Some people haven’t made payments for years, but they state that they are ‘paying our wages?’ It’s ironic as I can say for certain my team are all paying their taxes - and under that logic are therefore paying their own wages. Many of our callers are not paying their contributions (hence the letters they are calling about) so actually they are not paying anyone’s wages. The ‘I pay your wages’ statement also generally follows a load of abuse due to the operator being unable to give the caller what they want. Namely, to let them pay what they want when they want, or frequently, nothing at all. You can’t run a country like that. People are so quick to criticise. There are human beings on both ends of the phone. If the operators can only offer you limited options it’s because they are the rules, the laws and the procedures, not because they are nasty. There is no excuse for rudeness, but some situations are not easy or pleasant to deal with for either party. Rant over, but we have no redress and it’s unfair that people casually slag off civil servants and tar us all with the same brush.

You should be able to find the address by looking up the phone number on the Internet.

I don't live in the UK and can't work out who the authority is, but their address must be available to you somewhere.

The fact that it isn't on the letter is another thing to mention in your complaint.

Gillybob I just thought of something else: If you should have any other telephone comunications with HMRC, ^RECORD THE CALL^ They do, so can you. You can tell them at the beginning that you will be recording, or at the end of the conversation, which is what I usually do. Recording an important busuness call is also helpful should you need to refer back to something that was said at a later date.

I hope you get some sort of apology and more importantly the help you need for your business.

I do accounts and book keeping from home so deal with HMRC all the time. As soon as you get anyone who starts to be rude put the phone down and phone again. No one has the right to speak to you as they did and there are some really lovely people working there as well. I know you may be stuck in a phone queue again but it is worth it. You should write to them with time and date and exactly what they said and demand a reply. If you like PM me and I will help you to write the letter. (free of course).

it must be remembered that public sector workers on the whole are in positions of power over those members of the public they serve whether it be teachers or doctors or clerks in job centres or customer service people at the HMRC, prison officers or policemen. This is what attracts them to the role, not all are attracted to service. And many people abuse their power. They must be reported.

Hi what an awful experience for you gillybob you must write and complain. I was a civil servant for almost 40 years and we are public servants. Sometimes the message you have to give people is not what they want to hear but there is no excuse for not delivering it politely and professionally. If someone on my team had acted that way I would most definitely want to know so they could be tackled regarding their behaviour and I could identify if further training was needed. Whoever you spoke to will be able to be identified from your file. I would suggest speaking to your MP as has been suggested or writing to the Minister responsible for that department. Good luck

I know you initiated the call gillybob but if she was so horribly rude why did you keep talking to her? I would have told her what I thought of her and put the phone down on her, then call back and ask to speak to someone different with a better attitude. As others have said do make an official complaint, don't let her get away with it. Now go and get a nice cuppa or something stronger and r-e-l-a-x.

Gillybob, it sounds like your 'advisor' came straight from working with the DWP. That's how anyone claiming PIP awards is treated every time. I know from experience and have been reduced to tears and increased illness after every assessment. Talk about Gestapo tactics! You have my sympathy and hope things get better for you soo.

Hi gillybob it is never too late to telephone back and ask to speak to a Manager or Complaints Department. No one should have you in tears...their approach needs looking at and further training sounds needed. Take control back and telephone back...you will then feel better that you have addressed the upsetting situation.

Sorry to hear about the way you were treated gilly - it must have been upsetting for you.

I will do anything not to speak to a so called “official” on the ‘phone and always try and use email. You can’t avoid it sometimes though. Sometimes I think (banks in particular) when they look at your date of birth see you as some sort of older person who has to be humoured. That really annoys me. As someone who has worked for 44 years in responsible jobs I could teach them a thing or to. I would have asked for her name (I always do if I feel that I’m getting fobbed off or being patronised) but I appreciate that you were at the end of your tether. I also hate it when someone young enough to be my grandchild constantly uses my first name during our conversation.

I hope that things improve with your business and that you’re able to get the help that you need to keep your employees in a job.

If you are unhappy with the person on the end of the line, always insist on speaking to their supervisor or manager. You might meet resistance but quiet, polite insistence should ensure you get what you want.

Oh Gillybob, I really do feel for you ?.
I had a very similar experience with the DWP in a face to face interview. I was asked to attend an interview regarding the change over from Disability Living Allowance to ESA. I was treated horribly by an awful woman who told me I didn’t qualify any longer “go and get a job”! I was 64 years old and registered disabled for several years!! Luckily my husband was with me and together we got advise and it turned out she was wrong and hadn’t fully understood the new system. She actually rang me as sweet as pie, apologised and wished me all the best For the future!! That was after a year of appeals and interviews medical examinations, intervention from my MP etc. My mental health was in tatters and the charity MIND used my case as an example of how genuine and deserving people were suffering due to the changes to the system. I no longer need to claim benefits as I qualified for my pension 2 years later but I will never forget the way that woman treated me and the affect she had on my confidence. Sending hugs xx

Definitely complain and I’d go higher than line manager.
I wonder would google provide a way to complain. Try googling HMRC how to complain.

Things were different when u could go to the local tax office.
Now u r dealing with call centre staff. They lack training and human touch.
I too had a bad experience. Firstly after several attempts and waiting time on the phone , eventually spoke to someone. He could not answer my query nor attempt to understand it!
Very unhelpful.

What are SME's?

Things were different then .
Now u r dealing with call centre staff. They lack training and human touch.
I too had a bad experience. Firstly after several attempts and waiting time on the phone , eventually spoke to someone. He could not answer my query nor attempt to understand it!
Very unhelpful.

I found in the past that employees that worked in the tax office had a real "attitude" that I now put down to the fact that the person that they are talking on the phone to are very often rude and abusive.
Unfortunately, even now, some staff have that same attitude - a bit like the banks only seemed to employ people that spoke to you as if they were doing you a favour! (In fact I was actually told by someone that I knew that I was lucky to be able to have a bank account in the first place!)
In no way is being spoken down to by anyone over the phone acceptable - a complaint to their line manager should be made - there may be a training problem, or it may just be a case that you were the Nth person with the same query, and after a long day , they just were unprofessional enough to let you know!

So sorry to hear about your dreadful experience. Whenever l have to ring someone example the benefits agency l pray that l will get a patient understanding person last week I did speak to such a person . I think that the people who are nasty have a problem and they probably hate the job they're probably forced to do. I hope you have a better day today and manage to sort things out.

We once had a tax demand for €£254,000. DH had been arguing about something in his accounts and wouldnt let it go and we think it was bully boy tactics. They did withdraw it, saying it was an error.

But, a year later we had a full tax investigation which was horrendous. All they found wrong was that we paid one of our teenage sons to sweep and weed once a month which was, for some reason, outside the rules.