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.Porridge and Potatoes to solver Food Poverty

(36 Posts)
Franbern Thu 30-Jul-20 09:31:28

ARTICLE BY ONE OF MY LOCAL COUNCILLORS-

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Porridge and potatoes are being lauded by wealthy and privileged commentators and politicians as the answer to the country’s obesity crisis and food poverty problem.
People who actually know what it’s like to live with food poverty or work closely with those who do, have tried so hard for so long to make others understand what the real issues are but once again those with privilege are trying to make the debate one of personal responsibility.
I grew up in a poverty and this was most keenly felt around food.
My relationship with food was very much feast and famine depending on how close to pay day we were. Buying fresh fruit every week just wasn’t affordable.
The cost of eating healthily isn’t as simple as privileged people logging on to Tesco and pointing out how “cheap” fruit and veg is.
Sure, I can get cheap apples in season but apples aren’t going to fill up 4 people.
Five small apples costs around 80p and as a snack would last a day in my house with two children under the age of six.
Let’s not forget that as a minimum, we should all be eating 5 portions of fruit and veg a day. Throw in different coloured vegetables, a banana and an orange each day and you’ve easily spent a few pounds and no-one has even had a proper meal yet!
So it really rankles when privileged people think tackling food poverty and obesity is sneering about how much Pepsi and Pringles people buy.
Privilege isn’t just about family wealth. Privilege can be having your own transport, time to shop around and the knowledge and confidence to cook from scratch.
Having those things will help bring food bills down and give you better balanced meals but not everyone has that privilege.
If you want to tackle food poverty and obesity then you need to consider convenience, affordability and skills.
Give people the financial security, time and knowledge to shop/cook from scratch and they’ll do it. People aren’t eating chips and beans every day for the sake of it!
For example, I am privileged to no longer be in food poverty, to have my own transport, a stable modest income, and crucially the skills and confidence in the kitchen to cook from scratch.
So last night I made roast chicken with patatas bravas, baked feta and minted peas for 4 at a total cost of £8.21.
We have enough leftovers for dinner if I bulk it out with rice/veg for an additional 80p.
£9 for two dinners for four people. Sounds cheap, right?
Well for £9 I could buy enough beans, frozen chips, frozen veg, fish fingers/nuggets/sausages to feed 4 people dinner for 6 nights plus 2 packets of biscuits.
Nutritionally it wouldn’t be great but 4 people would be fed for almost a week on what I spent on two meals.
Cheap, calorie rich food is filling and people are feeding it to their children out of necessity.
Googling the price of fruit and vegetables to shame people is performative othering. It’s a way of saying to ordinary people that the issues we have aren’t structural but caused by a lack of individual responsibility. “THEY don’t buy fresh food because THEY are lazy and YOU are proof that THEY are lazy because YOU can cook and YOU don’t buy junk”.
I’m a very confident cook and I involve my children in my cooking so they can gain the knowledge and skills. Yet I know people from very privileged backgrounds who are unable to cook because they were never taught. They can afford Tesco finest dinner deals and Charlie Bigham’s ready meals and no-one criticises them for it. Yet the single parent working two jobs buying nuggets and chips is lazy and feckless.
These issues are often down to benefit cuts, freezes and sanctions, delays to universal credit, low and stagnant wages, zero hours contracts and insecure work.
Until the government and their commentators are willing to focus on the real causes of food poverty and obesity instead of labelling people as lazy and feckless they need to stay in their lanes.

rosecarmel Fri 31-Jul-20 18:15:11

dizzyblonde

I think the posters comparing their past to today are assuming an equal level of intelligence and equal personal circumstances.
As I posted on the other thread, working with the truly disadvantaged in society has made me less judgemental. Coming from a poor family but eating well because both my parents were intelligent, could cook and had been bought up to be able to stretch their income, I assumed everyone had the same opportunities.
Sadly that is not the case. Illiteracy or at least a very low level of literacy is common, money going straight into a partners or their own drug/alcohol/gaming habit is the norm. Parents so fixed in the way they were raised that they would struggle to change even if they understand that change should be made. It’s like coming from a family where several generations have been unemployed, there is no expectation of anything being better. It is not laziness, that would only be true if they knew that things should be different and they had the capacity to change but couldn’t be bothered. In my experience that is rarely the case.

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dizzyblonde Fri 31-Jul-20 06:26:29

I think the posters comparing their past to today are assuming an equal level of intelligence and equal personal circumstances.
As I posted on the other thread, working with the truly disadvantaged in society has made me less judgemental. Coming from a poor family but eating well because both my parents were intelligent, could cook and had been bought up to be able to stretch their income, I assumed everyone had the same opportunities.
Sadly that is not the case. Illiteracy or at least a very low level of literacy is common, money going straight into a partners or their own drug/alcohol/gaming habit is the norm. Parents so fixed in the way they were raised that they would struggle to change even if they understand that change should be made. It’s like coming from a family where several generations have been unemployed, there is no expectation of anything being better. It is not laziness, that would only be true if they knew that things should be different and they had the capacity to change but couldn’t be bothered. In my experience that is rarely the case.

welbeck Fri 31-Jul-20 00:07:47

Franbern,
thank you for that article. can we have the citation please.

Callistemon Thu 30-Jul-20 22:46:33

?️‍♀️?‍♀️?‍♀️?‍♀️?‍♀️
I need to get out more

annep1 Thu 30-Jul-20 22:35:53

I'm sure you'll lose it once you're walking again Callistemon ?

Callistemon Thu 30-Jul-20 21:57:37

We weren't allowed to drive anywhere for weeks to go for a flat walk. Yes, I've cut down even more. I know what to do. Misery!

annep1 Thu 30-Jul-20 21:53:09

Oh dear Callistemon. It's very difficult to lose weight. Perhaps try to cut down even a little bit. If you're not using the same number of calories you will gain weight. Can you not go for a walk?

I was actually speaking about mothers who are perhaps on furlough and spending less on petrol and other things during lockdown and have the time and money to make better food. Obviously the amount of money one has to spend makes a difference.
Needless to say now that I know, I can help.
Its not easy on a low budget when you're working and have children.

Callistemon Thu 30-Jul-20 21:32:10

No, I haven't unfortunately.
I have put on about 6lbs, probably through not being able to go out although I have been gardening.

annep1 Thu 30-Jul-20 20:58:16

I have lost a stone since lockdown started which I think is from spending more on food and cooking better.

A text my daughter sent me earlier. I'm sure many others could say the same.

Witzend Thu 30-Jul-20 20:06:04

Yes, the ruinous cost of housing, esp. in London and the SE, is certainly a factor.
Though having said that, I’m in two minds. Having been exceedingly broke in the past, when dh and I lived largely off soups made from cheap seasonal veg, lentils, etc., bread and the cheapest possible cheese, I know it’s possible to eat reasonably healthily on a very small budget. Things like carrots and cabbage are cheap and very good, but ‘healthy’ nowadays seems to mean more expensive items such as blueberries.

Because of cost, fruit was strictly limited when I was a child, nothing like the amounts of people seem to think necessary today (our vitamins came largely from seasonal veg) - but we all grew up perfectly healthy and I dare say many GNers would say the same.

rosecarmel Thu 30-Jul-20 19:36:20

In no uncertain terms, poverty is a result of governmental, legislative neglect- Governance is intentionally designed for the flow of money to up, not down and not out-

The most recent example of this I can provide is the upsidedown pyramid of the corona virus bailout package here in the US-

Billions went to billionaires, millions to millionaires (including Hollywood celebs), thousands upon thousands to some families monthly and a "one time" payout of 1,200 to those most vulnerable-

The eviction moratorium expires July 31st- Evictions can begin August 1st-

Food, a roof and warmth, 3 of your basic necessities to survive, that are hard won, can overnight be gone-

trisher Thu 30-Jul-20 18:53:35

There is also the question of food addiction. Children fed processed foods at an early age develop a taste for them and it is difficult to change their eating habits. This is a report on baby foods- it is shocking assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/812204/Foods_and_drinks_aimed_at_infants_and_young_children_June_2019.pdf

watermeadow Thu 30-Jul-20 18:38:45

School dinners are 5 meals per week out of the usual 21 eaten and there’s nothing to stop a child choosing only chips, pizza and doughnuts at school. Very few will ever choose vegetables or salad.
In deprived areas children then walk home past dozens of junk food outlets selling fried chicken and chips for a matter of pence.
Food poverty is complicated and the days of mince and cabbage are long long gone.

Rosalyn69 Thu 30-Jul-20 14:19:03

It bothers me that less well off people may not be putting good eating habits higher on the list than the latest mobile phone, Sky TV subscriptions, expensive TVs etc.

GillT57 Thu 30-Jul-20 13:39:06

Thank you franbern a most straight forward article pointing out that none of us know the truth of the causes of poverty of food and nutrition.

Oopsadaisy3 Thu 30-Jul-20 13:27:18

Caramac I agree, if children can’t be taught to cook at school then they should be shown how to access the sites that show them how to prep food online.
Plus they should all be taught how to handle their finances ready for when they need to support themselves and their families.

Oopsadaisy3 Thu 30-Jul-20 13:25:32

I had a shopping delivery last night 9pm cost me £1. Plenty of fresh fruit and veg online and as everybody has laptops, obtaining them shouldn't be a problem.
Let’s face it there is always an excuse to spend money on anything other than boring ingredients and buy junk food instead.
My DD went to our fridge one day when she was a child, and shouted that there was no food in the house and that she would starve, what she saw was ingredients to make meals, which is what she was told.

Caramac Thu 30-Jul-20 13:24:34

I believe that social housing at affordable prices is key to bringing the cost of living down.
I would also bring back proper school meals and ban packed lunches at school. This would also provide jobs for parents/carers who need a term time contract with an annualised salary.
I’d support school meals being free or more heavily subsidised.
Basic cookery and life skills should also be taught in every school to every child. I realise that for some SEN children this might be impractical but the majority of children would benefit.

Blinko Thu 30-Jul-20 13:12:49

Thanks for posting that article, Franbern. I was particularly struck by the examples of what could and couldn't be done with £9, for two and for a family of four people. Most illuminating. When I was little, we grew most of our own veg so that made a huge difference.

GagaJo Thu 30-Jul-20 12:43:36

Exactly Chewbacca, and at the risk of setting off an anti-China tirade, this is why the Chinese have those huge fresh food markets. They are cheap and allow farmers to sell produce direct. I used them all the time when living there. All areas have them. To get anything similar in Newcastle, I have to go all the way into the city centre (almost £5 on bus or metro) to go to our admittedly very good indoor market. The fare alone puts it out of reach of anyone on a low income.

Chewbacca Thu 30-Jul-20 12:22:52

It's just so easy to judge those who are living on the bread line as being lazy and feckless isn't it? Family to feed, high rent or mortgage, council taxes and utilities, all out of a very tight, limited budget. And unlike our generation, they have little access to a market selling fresh vegetables and produce because the supermarkets have seen them all off. No wonder food banks are needed by so many.

eazybee Thu 30-Jul-20 12:09:31

I remember some years ago Anne Widdecombe taking on a challenge to help young mothers on low incomes feed their families healthily for a week, and she did.
What she commented on was the distance they had to go, on foot with small children, to get cheap fresh food, particularly meat, vegetables and fish, almost unobtainable. The local rather poor supermarket had effectively wiped out all the butchers, green grocers and fishmongers where they could get cheap cuts, small amounts and miss-shaped vegetables, and it was a long, expensive bus ride into town.

EllanVannin Thu 30-Jul-20 11:51:34

Housing is the greatest bugbear so far as those who are trying to manage is concerned. Whether it be extortionate mortgages/rents it doesn't give anyone a chance to eat properly once they've secured a roof over their heads. Then you have council tax and the greedy utilities, gas/electric/water.

Come winter time, how do families manage to keep warm AND eat well ? Something has to give. Children of these families are our future. What of another Covid along with winter 'flu, how many are going to die trying to keep warm or being fed the right and proper food so that they remain reasonably well ?

Blimey, if I ate 5 portions of fruit/veg a day I'd never be off the toilet ! It's not needed as you age and because so much goes to waste anyway, it should be offered to all families with children.

Distribution of foodstuffs seems to be sketchy. Does this automatically go to those who are out of work or who have lost their jobs ? Things are going to get worse aren't they ?

paddyanne Thu 30-Jul-20 11:19:34

Not JUST children who need access to the internet,jobseekers must show they've looked for a certain number of jobs every day or they'll be "sanctioned" ,then there will be NO money to buy any food for the family.Remember please that unemployment isn't laziness,.maybe in the odd case but for most its bad circumstances beyond their control .Most people want to look after their families and being out of work causes mental health issues which compound the situation.

I know some smoke or drink...and who can blame them.When things are so bad they cant see a light at the end of the tunnel they need something to ease their worry.I totally understand that ,sadly many on here dont .

GagaJo Thu 30-Jul-20 11:03:51

midgey

Callistemon I am with you on cheap food. We are being programmed to want the lowest price for everything. Cheap food is very often poorly produced or comes with much lower welfare standards. We all need to rethink our priorities!

The poor don't have that luxury ('rethinking their priorities'). They're too busy surviving and trying to get by without a livable income. That is what the article is about!

I had a friend years ago who sneered at me and said it was about knowing how to budget because I couldn't make ends meet. Her income was 3 times what mine was. I'm excellent at making a little money go a long way. Now I have a stable income I save and budget brilliantly.