But, what if you are not, or even don't want to be, on the internet?

It does irritate me that my employer needs my personal email address; and they've been badgering me for months to update my personnel records which I don't do. The IT log on security that, enables me to work from home, sends my personal mobile phone a one time code that I have to use to access my computer each day. And I resent that as well tbh. There's no way they're having my personal email address too.

I have a g-mail address for miscellaneous nonsense like employer requests, subscriptions (including Gransnet) and so on. I only look at it when I need to, which is rarely. That way I keep my real personal details as private as I want to.

And yet you’re posting here on social media, Spangler?

It’s called progress and we all need to move with the times or get left behind it’s up to your brothers but they are the ones who will be struggling if they stubbornly refuse
My Nan bless her was really frightened of new innovations She would not use the phone to her going day she was terrified of it she wouldn’t have any of the modern labour saving inventions (washing machines fridge etc) and my grandad had a dreadful problem when he bought a tv home and they didn’t speak for weeks she wouldn’t have the arial on the roof, as in her mind the house was going to be struck down in the next thunderstorm My grandad had to compromised and have a huge great thing in their top spare bedroom I m amazed they didn’t part company to be honest
All that fear for nothing
My 84 year old friend has conquered the iPad and I m now teaching another friend by remote lessons as she’s had an iPad two or three years and never used it
Move with the times or get left behind

My children and grandchild have certainly helped me with the internet which for me is a blessing as a communication tool. At work before my retirement, the idea of having a PA dealing with your mail was slowly dying out anyway. When I get my phone upgraded, I get my children to give me tutorials and then after that it is all trial and error. One should never stop learning, in my opinion.

This thread has made me think about my approach to the internet. It's only because of my kids that I have moved forward with it and if I had been childless I'm not sure who I'd have trusted, in the early days, to inform me. The eldest son passes on his mobile to me when he upgrades and the youngest keeps me internet savvy. I love it!

For my daughter, who is blind, it's been an absolute life-changer. She uses speech recognition to manage her bank account online plus all other internet transactions. She's an avid film buff and has nearly 100 films stored on her mobile, all purchased online.

Like others I've been reluctant to use online banking but have now started and it's great. The Santander format is very clear and user-friendly and if it should go wrong it's their problem.

I wonder what people who are worried about their shopping or spending habits being online are really worried about. I honestly don’t care if people know I’ve bought a load of elastic or a pair or shoes. Internet banking is much more straightforward and as secure as getting statements and cheque books through the post. Just because you don’t do internet banking, if you have a bank account you must realist the details are online for the bank to use , it’s just you choose not to look at your own details - the bank staff will be able to see it. I think if you live in the 21st century and don’t have a disability to prevent it, there’s no reason not to make your life and the lives of others easier.

But surely it’s a choice not to engage with online shopping, banking, etc.? I agree that perhaps the very old eg 90+ might not have had the opportunity to use computers in their working life, but certainly those on their 70s and most on their 80s had that opportunity.

I was certainly using them 20+ years ago.

We went out for dinner last night (first experience since lockdown) and we were told to access the menu via our phones.
O.H., being grumpy, announced he didn't have a phone. Nonsense of course but the older he gets the more like Victor Meldrew he appears.

What a good idea. Better than being handed a menu that has been handled by others.

I think Esspee that there are many VM’s out there and it’s not so much a case of ‘can’t’ but more ‘won’t’.

My BiL and SIL won’t do their grocery shop online even though he is high risk. They are convinced their bank details will be stolen.

Well it’s a choice of course, but don’t moan about it or expect others to inconvenience themselves to fit in with your choices.

Why not?
We all live with others' choices every day.

I catch the bus every day, where people choose not to wear masks, knowing that others may possibly die because of their choices.

I’ve used internet banking/shopping etc for many years now and agree it’s life changing and so much easier and more reliable than the “old ways”.

But....though it’s a fact that the vast majority of people can use new technology if they want to and are simply making a rod for their own backs if they choose to be “dinosaurs”, there will always be those who cannot access it for various reasons. These people are probably already disadvantaged because of medical conditions, learning difficulties, poverty etc. Alternative ways to access services and discounts must always be available to these people so that they’re not left trailing even further behind.

I have all my children's bank details, grandkids,nieces and nephews too, it makes life so much easier when sending birthday money you just transfer across to them. I lend them cash on odd occasions and they can return it via mobile banking when they get paid. I love being able to check my accounts daily and pay my CC via this app too. Seldom do i have cash on me as i pay everything via cashless system. I use the internet daily, just would not want to be without either of them. Love being able to shop and not leave the house, most useful in the early days of lock down. I order medication online, recieve apointment reminders from GP and dentist, also hospital when necessary. Now we are able to email our surgery which is a new service, i used last week and booked a pneumonia jab which i had done yesterday. Its life now and we would all be lost without is i guess.

Spangler
i'm no Luddite. so I won't be sharing my email address anytime soon
The above proves that you are. Millions of people know your email address. How do you think we get spam emails.

So, should we say that everyone who is able should drive a car?

I think the issue is when it affects other people. Not driving a car doesnt affect other people unless you are constantly asking for lifts. Not using the internet affects the people providing the service and particularly at the moment I think they are perfectly entitled to say you therefore cant have the service. They wont because they desperately need the money. But I think it's quite selfish.

One of the big problems of relying so much on the internet is losing your connection. New houses have just been built next door to me and, although it seems hard to believe, the builders cut through the cable 4 times.
Full marks to BT who worked in the pouring rain and overnight to get it repaired, but even so, we were without phone and internet for several days. Inconvenient for householders but devastating for small businesses who rely on the internet.

I can't imagine life without the internet now. I've been on it for about 20 years and think the pros far outweigh the cons.
I'm not particularly technical but my sons make sure that I'm not doing anything too silly on it.
I do have sympathy though for those who don't use it, for whatever reason.

"SueDonim Tue 11-Aug-20 01:24:11
And yet you’re posting here on social media, Spangler?"
You are right, I am posting here. But I never use Google to get here. I prefer a company that doesn't track me and sell on that information.

"vegansrock Tue 11-Aug-20 05:57:28
I wonder what people who are worried about their shopping or spending habits being online are really worried about. I honestly don’t care if people know I’ve bought a load of elastic or a pair or shoes."

I care very much. It isn't simply the purchase that's logged and profiled, it's the amount that's spent and the time and date. What do they want that for?

"MerylStreep Tue 11-Aug-20 08:47:27
Spangler
i'm no Luddite. so I won't be sharing my email address anytime soon
The above proves that you are. Millions of people know your email address. How do you think we get spam emails."

The way I define Luddite is someone who wishes for an end to something. The Luddites smashed up the machinery that they saw as a threat to their jobs. I have no wish to see an end to the internet.

"Furret Tue 11-Aug-20 07:01:06
I think Esspee that there are many VM’s out there and it’s not so much a case of ‘can’t’ but more ‘won’t’."

Guilty as charged, I'm a social creature that prefers engaging with others, so while I can, I will continue to bank at my bank, shop at the shops and pay bills at the Post Office.

If you enjoy using the internet, good for you, I don't mind. As yet I haven't missed out on anything, and MerylStreep, I'm still waiting for my first spam email.

Some older people have a love of technology. Me (70) for one.

When I retired I taught 50+ how to use computer/laptop. They were so appreciative that someone their age was teaching them. Most had found younger ‘teachers’ rushed them through so much and made assumptions that they had some knowledge already.

As for being a social creature spangler, ZOOM, Houseparty etc have meant even more socialising for many during lockdown - Young and old alike.

Agree with Woodmouse but at 70 we are NOT older people!

DS1 showed me how to use the internet about 25 years ago. After that, it was mainly trial and error. If you search, there's usually a way out of most dilemmas. Now I'm 79 and always open to new aps and ideas. I use it on my laptop (as now), my tablet and my phone. Since all the banks disappeared from our town, I've used internet banking without difficulty.

My server has been down for 2 days and boy have I missed it! No way I could access GN for starters. No way I could google for advice on how to possibly repair or even to get BT’s helpline number, no way I can register my football players to play except online and they must all have email addresses making a volunteer Secretary’s life that bit moe complex. No way I can order items online such as specialist light bulbs for which there are no high street suppliers.Then with self isolation being able to order groceries online has been a godsend.

A lot of people in lockdown even those in their 90’s have been ‘forced’ to use the internet and have actually found themselves able to use it and enjoying it. Needs must and all that. It’s surprising what you can do when you have to.There may come a time when you can’t get out and about and will be grateful for it as it will help you remain independent.