Whole school bubbles being made to self-isolate?

What ? Where did I say anything g like that? I said I didnt know what the solution was.

I also said I assume these were govt guidelines but actually I don’t know what autonomy individual schools have. It’s an impossible situation.

Lucca

I’m assuming this is primary ? In secondary it could be about 200! I don’t know what the solution is honestly but I’m assuming these are government guidelines ?

So you prefer to wait until all 200 children have Covid?

waiting the return of students from all over and living in mixed houses,,,,,,,,

Ellianne

^One reason for the government being so desperate to get schools functioning was the increasing amount of evidence to suggest that some children are being permanently damaged by being out of school.^
And not just educationally GrannySomerset. You can have all the online learning you like but the real classroom with physical daily human contact is vital for a child's development and mental health.

Do you honestly think schools don't know that?!! The fact, which you seem to overlook every single time, us that schools CANNOT be "Covid safe", so the most rational solution is to opt for the best in the circumstances.

My DGS in Y11, told me that his 'bubble' is the entire year group. What's more, the wearing of masks in public spaces is not being enforced. Imagine if one child in each year were to have a positive test. Would the whole school be quarantined? It seems to me that their school has a remarkably laissez faire attitude. I wonder if it's a policy across the academy group or left to the school's management.

FannyCornforth

GrannySomerset
They haven't exactly got a track record of caring about disadvantage youth.
What happens to the promised laptops for kids who didn't have them? Nothing
What happened to the promised catch up tutors over the summer holidays? Nothing
They don't give a stuff about actual education. This has shown up the truth about schools.
Child care with a bit of social work chucked in.

The school I used to work at were given money to provide 250 lap tops for pupils who did not have a device to work on at home. They are loaned to the pupils, not given to them, and if a pupil is in school, the lap tops are cleaned and stored, ready to give out if a year group has to self isolate. I'm not sure where the money came from, the Headteacher was very enterprising so might have sourced them from local businesses.

One reason for the government being so desperate to get schools functioning was the increasing amount of evidence to suggest that some children are being permanently damaged by being out of school.
And not just educationally GrannySomerset. You can have all the online learning you like but the real classroom with physical daily human contact is vital for a child's development and mental health.

The thought of all the mixed contact that goes on in secondary schools horrifies me. Primary not so much because they stay in the same classroom for most of the day.
My elder GS in Y6 does one week in, one week home learning but he’s old enough to be left whilst his parents work.
Should we have kept schools closed?
Many children and parents were already out meeting up with friends and potentially spreading the virus and despite organisation by schools for start and finish, many parents still gather in groups whilst waiting.
Keeping schools closed would have meant parents at home with no work and no money. Some children don’t have equipment to work online, others had the equipment but working online was not what they did with it, especially as time went on.
Some parents rigorously made their children do what was provided by the school or followed work on the government’s Oak Academy website, others didn’t either because they didn’t understand the work and couldn’t support their children or, as one mum said on air, “It’s not my job to teach them.”
So what should we do?

Child care with a bit of social work chucked in.

Exactly!

GrannySomerset

What none of you have commented on is the widening educational gap between families who can support home learning and those who can’t. One reason for the government being so desperate to get schools functioning was the increasing amount of evidence to suggest that some children are being permanently damaged by being out of school. These children are being failed by the inadequacy of testing and tracing. I can’t see much in the way of a solution.

Do you really think so? I'm afraid I don't. As Franbern has pointed out, this government has made significant cuts to the support available to disadvantaged families over the last ten years and schools in disadvantaged areas have had their funding cut in the latest formula.

The government promised that all pupils would have access to a laptop, but in most cases, they are yet to materialise.

Getting pupils back to school was a PR exercise to curry favour with the public - unions and "leftie" teachers could always be blamed if it all went wrong. Parents wanted their children back in school, so they could return to work.

ElaineI

Difficulty is if teacher has one group in class and a group at home they can't teach both. DD was working all her hours on the home schooling - she did a lot P1 - and could not have also been teaching face to face.

That's why online specialists have been paid by the government to produce teaching materials suitable for home learning. The government knew very well this would happen.

GrannySomerset
They haven't exactly got a track record of caring about disadvantage youth.
What happens to the promised laptops for kids who didn't have them? Nothing
What happened to the promised catch up tutors over the summer holidays? Nothing
They don't give a stuff about actual education. This has shown up the truth about schools.
Child care with a bit of social work chucked in.

What none of you have commented on is the widening educational gap between families who can support home learning and those who can’t. One reason for the government being so desperate to get schools functioning was the increasing amount of evidence to suggest that some children are being permanently damaged by being out of school. These children are being failed by the inadequacy of testing and tracing. I can’t see much in the way of a solution.

Difficulty is if teacher has one group in class and a group at home they can't teach both. DD was working all her hours on the home schooling - she did a lot P1 - and could not have also been teaching face to face.

trisher, I've got several theories.
I think that they were convinced that that the Unions would kick up a stink and that schools wouldn't open.
Then they could blame all the lazy arsed teachers and what Gove referred to as 'the blob' for letting the kids down.
They basically washed their hands (pardon the pun) of schools.

With the season of winter colds and coughs just getting going, and anyone who has these being told to stay at home, get a test (impossible at present) or isolate for a fortnight, cannot see many schools managing to stay open after half term.

Our world beating test and trace system, like so many other of this government ideas is a shambles.

Surely, if every school in the country had facilities to arrange immediate tests for any pupil or staff member with ANY symptom, this would help to ensure some form of proper continuity of education for our young people.

It really should be as simple as that. In the over-whelming majority of cases the results would be negative and it would be simple colds, coughs, etc.

This was so predictable I find it hard to believe that he government didn't know exactly what would happen. But then with this absolute shower who knows?

Yes, it's obvious you don't know how secondary schools work.

An uncalled for comment growstuff. At least I was trying to show some humility by asking a question against a "know it all" attitude of some people.
But let's not allow this to derail the issue.

I think if primary classes were split into two groups of 15 and attended alternative weeks with a deep clean over the weekend bubbles could be smaller. One week in school with their class teacher then a week at home working on topics introduced the previous week. No need for extra teachers. I realise this would be very difficult for working parents but may mean less children having to isolate if there is a case in a bubble.

I think that all the deep cleaning stuff is a red herring. Ditto handwashing to a certain extent.
What's the point if every one is cheek by jowl in poorly ventilated rooms breathing all over each other for hours on end?
In secondaries kids have to wear masks in corridors where there is one way system, but not in classrooms where they are actually in much closer proximity for prolonged periods of time.
It's shocking.

Oh dear. Complete formatting fail.

This was absolutely inevitable and the utter cattastrophck that is the testing 'organisation' isn't helping.

(*thanks mumsnet ?)

Hi, FannyCornforth. Nice to see you jumping straight in...

Ellianne

But would it be their own teacher, because what if that teacher were home isolating with the other rota group?
I'm not familiar with the workings of secondary, but primary need the same teacher.

Yes, it's obvious you don't know how secondary schools work. A secondary pupil typically has 10-15 different teachers in a week. A self-isolating teacher could, in any case, work from home, possibly supervising Zoom sessions.

Secondary pupils, especially older ones, can't stay with the same classes for every lesson because they will have chosen different options and will be in different sets.

If a secondary teacher is infected, it's likely he/she has had contact with 150 pupils in a day.

People were warned, but they weren't listening.

Riverwalk

I've just heard on the Today programme two mothers, separate schools, reporting how their children are now self-isolating for the next two weeks as two children in their respective bubbles have tested positive for Covid. Whole year group bubbles can be around 90 children.

Surely this can't be the right thing to do? I understand though that this is the rule.

How are children to get an education if they can be sent home at any time - it could happen continuously, they go back and then someone else tests positive.

I'm so flabbergasted can't think of anything else to say, but something must be done!

Yes, something must be done. School groups must attend in rotas, so that social distancing can be achieved.

PS. A "bubble" (year group) in my local comprehensive is 300.

But would it be their own teacher, because what if that teacher were home isolating with the other rota group?
I'm not familiar with the workings of secondary, but primary need the same teacher.