Another beheading in France!

TerriBull

I'm contradicting myself because I agree with your post Galaxy about censorship being subjective and applying such a rationale flies in the face of all that we hold dear about free speech in a democracy. On the other hand it seems that Charlie Hebdo's raison d'etre is to offend anyone and everyone, of course their targets should be able to suck that up, clearly some can't. It's not as if they, the publication/publishers don't know the reactions they may elicit some quarters, any loss of life hardly seems worth it to me. Having said that, I disagree with myself because we shouldn't have to adapt to appease crazed religious maniacs.

Yes, I can see both sides too.
I was wondering the other day, if the teacher ( later murdered) could have given his lesson without showing his class the actual cartoons.Talked about them, and what they represented perhaps? The school has many muslim pupils.
In a perfect world all sorts of things could and should be allowed, but it isn’t is it?

Because its the sort of thing people talk about to each other. Just talk. Not looking for answers.
Many people just swerve the politics and news threads.

Why on earth is this thread in 'chat' ?!?

The situation in France has always been historically different. Partly because of the principle of 'Laïcité/secularity' which followed the Revolution, partly because of the very recent (to me) war of Algeria. Both have resulted in North African Muslims in France, even now 2nd, 3rd or evern 4th generation Muslims- even those who do not wear any traditional clothes, etc- encountering daily discrimination, insults, rejection, of every kind- day in, day out, and massive unemployment.

Building huge resentment and making some young people, especially young men- very easy to target by extremist groups.

Does anyone remember the film 'La Haine'?

Charlie Hebdo poured petrol over the flames, and are doing it again- and a large part of the Islamophobic population is helping carry the can- and doing it again. A very dangerous situation.

There is a massive difference between 'appeasement' and deliberate fanning of the flames. And I am not in any way shape or form, excusing those heinous crimes committed by a few mad men. They carry in their pockets a copy of a postcard sent by French soldiers during the Algerian war- of Arad heads severed and lined up on a stone wall- to encourage them. The Algerian war was recent enough for their fathers to have been involved.

The situation in France is unique totally different to the UK.

Totally get what you are saying Terri- 100%.

A hugely dangerous situation for the whole of France too, and innocent people.

This is all so horrible and wicked and no justification for any reasons. Cannot even imagine how you would feel if one of your own loved ones died in this way.

Anti-Semitic comments are considered hate speech, not free speech-

There is no such thing as free speech. Look what happens when you use it ! Which is why I'm keeping my thoughts to myself.

To quote jordan peterson (who I disagree with on lots of points but not on this) those who would decide which speech is offensive are the very last people you would want to decide that. He put it more eloquently than I have.

censorship I meant to say what's offensive

I'm contradicting myself because I agree with your post Galaxy about censorship being subjective and applying such a rationale flies in the face of all that we hold dear about free speech in a democracy. On the other hand it seems that Charlie Hebdo's raison d'etre is to offend anyone and everyone, of course their targets should be able to suck that up, clearly some can't. It's not as if they, the publication/publishers don't know the reactions they may elicit some quarters, any loss of life hardly seems worth it to me. Having said that, I disagree with myself because we shouldn't have to adapt to appease crazed religious maniacs.

Phew.
Absolutely always. Freedom of speech is paramount. Bullies must never ever be allowed.
Another tragedy in the name of religion.

I'm in two minds. While I totally agree with Macron on free speech, I do agree with Terribull that this is not to the time to inflame the wrath of others. I would prefer to take the moral high ground and reign things in a bit, but then I guess that also has consequences.

The problem as I see it Terrybull is if one group is treated differently to the rest of us, what's to stop another from using the same horrific tactics to get their way?
Where will the slip sliding end?

Yes, let's ban the cartoonists and keep the terrorists!!!!!!!!!

I find that viewpoint absolutely terrifying Terri. Who decides what is offensive and what happens when someone decides that what you want to say is offensive.

Boris grandfather was killed defending the Armenian persecution in Turkey.
Now it's his turn to speak up in support of Macron and France.

I agree with you eazybee regarding Charlie Hebdo, I know free speech is enshrined in western constitutions and the right to offend and all that, but I can't help thinking especially of late, that right should come with some responsibility. Was the original puerile Charlie Hebdo cartoon ever worth the loss of life that followed? I don't think so. All the "Je suis Charlie Hebdo" posturing by world leaders in the aftermath of the atrocity was meaningless. Those slaughtered gone forever and the pain their nearest and dearest will suffer cannot be assuaged by futile gestures. In an ideal world all should be able to shrug off insults to their religion, political persuasions and beliefs, however offensive, but we don't live in an ideal world and maybe we are going to have to realise that there is a hefty price to pay in inflaming certain people's sensibilities and possibly they, the crazed, fascist and thoroughly wicked assassins are relying on that, but as Donald Tusk would say but not about them "there's a special place in hell for such people" Lets hope so!

Oh Lord, I haven't heard this. How have I missed it ? Goodness me. I've just put the news on BBC. How horrible, near the Notre Dame. Evil !

Very serious situation for France. As well as the awful attacks several countries in the Middle East are sending threats to France. economic and more. Most aggressive is Erdogan in Turkey.

This is so vile. They are evil.

Another appalling crime, but why does Charlie Hebdo choose to inflame an already explosive situation by publishing a cartoon of Erdogan holding a beer whilst lifting the skirt of a woman wearing a hijab to expose her buttocks? (quoted in today's DT.)
I don't know if this is related to the attack, but I do not believe this constitutes freedom of speech; it is intentionally offensive.

This is the most terrible news. There are no words to describe how awful it is.

I heard the police have injured one of the terrorists and he is in hospital, guarded by armed guards. He will have to account for his diabolical crime in a French court, good! Being shot dead is too easy for them.

How awful, and at mass too this is the second attack in a church in France following the beheading of the elderly priest a while back.

So sorry for the victims and their families.

May they rest in peace the poor souls how horrific,what a frightening world we are living in.