Christmas easing of restrictions

vampirequeen

Easing the restrictions just because some people will flout them anyway is a ridiculous argument. Using that reasoning we might as well allow burglary/murder etc. on that grounds that even if it's illegal some people will do it anyway.

What's the point of all the effort we've put in over the last few months if we're going to allow Christmas to become the super spreader season? It undermines all our efforts.

Eid and Diwali were restricted. Why is Christmas any different?

Agree. The odd thing is, we keep being told that if we become infected today, we are likely to be really ill in 3 weeks time. How far from lockdown easing on 2nd December is Christmas? Why, 3 weeks ...

Well, I'm jolly pleased. I want to see the family at Christmas. Won't be all of them but at least some will be with us. We're all happy to take the risk. Better early death after a happy Christmas than longer life but no festivities.

I have expected to spend Christmas day on my own and I'm fine with that. My youngest daughter is local,lives with her boyfriend and will be working in a care home Christmas Day.
My eldest daughter lives about a three hour round trip away with her husband and my two grandsons. She very much Hope's to do a socially distanced present drop and greeting from a distance as havent seen since August.
I have arranged for presents to be delivered to her so whatever happens they will have gifts on the day.
I have made/am making some gifts which hopefully I can post.
I know everyone is very different in how they feel about the situation. Personally I'm high risk in several ways. I find myself shaking my head in disbelief that some people may believe because the government allow it it is safe to do so. I'm sure many of us remember how specific the rules were in summer with an outdoor garden meeting and what you had to do if needed to use toilet etc. To do this when virus more prevalent and indoors would take extreme caution. It may be that by isolating beforehand etc etc it could be done.
To be honest I'm sure that those who have followed the rules will probably do their own risk assessment and act accordingly. There will be an element who will do what want regardless as they have the rest of the year. I do feel sorry for those who are pressured into situations they are not comfortable with by family members. Fingers crossed!

pen50 Better early death after a happy Christmas than longer life but no festivities.

I'm speechless.

Sparklefizz
And me.

In October 2020, 43,265 people died
In October 2019 43,257 people died
In October 2018 41,466 people died

Where is the excess mortality?????

Lessening restrictions just because it is Christmas and the New Year is utterly ridiculous.

If there had been a significant drop in the number of cases, it would still be risky.

We have no choice . Every day is a risk for us as we have teenage grandchildren living with us. (Although DH is extremely vulnerable the requirement is that they should still attend school).We are as careful as we can be and the schools are very careful too but we will carry on at Christmas as we are now just including the parents whom we see almost every day anyway(care bubble) Our local DS I am sure will not want to join us as they have been very careful before and since the birth of their fourth child in April.

Willow73 Vaccinate the young folk first! Only last night learned from a young friend 45 years old, her 16 year old son was planning to stay a weekend with 8 other friends in a friends house whilst the parents were away. Of course they would all then return to homes, some with older adults living with them. Yes, vaccinate the young so they can continue to act irresponsibly all for their own enjoyment. For me it's the vulnerable first.

Five days of socialising - like taking a bottle of corona, removing the stopper and shaking it out into the air - the public transport system will be rife with it, as will the pubs. Yet, some elderly people may be on their last Christmas so what do we do (and I'm elderly). It would be nice to think that younger family members would take extra care not to mix socially other than what has been permitted so far, so that they can welcome their older parents or grandparents knowing that they've taken all reasonable steps to protect them. It's a balance based on each one of us making a sensible risk assessment, and including in that the risk to mental health as well as to physical health - and actually, mental health has a great effect on physical health anyway as stress remains in the body. I wonder if BJ will be more specific about travelling - will he say that people are still not able to sleep in somebody else's house - that should be the case in my opinion, so that people from a heavily infected area don't transport the virus to a lightly infected place.

Every Christmas is someone's last we never know what is going to happen the following year .I would love to see family but just not worth the risk .Unfortunately there will be people doing a lot of mixing and then going shopping etc after putting us that won't be mixing at risk .

Olive53

In October 2020, 43,265 people died
In October 2019 43,257 people died
In October 2018 41,466 people died

Where is the excess mortality?????

It's not just about dying though.
It's about being very, very ill and having to be hospitalised, and living with unknown consequences of the disease.
There is so much that is unknown about Covid, and I speak from personal experience.

We can all get together when the vaccine has given us suffieient safety to meet. I don't want to get together with family till then - if families do mix, some older people will get Covid as a result and some may die. Not worth the risk, to me, but we will all make our own decisions of course.

pen50 my son in law’s sister had an ‘early death’ from coronavirus.....at 41 years old. Her youngest child is still only 5. She was a frontline NHS worker just doing her job and her death has left a shocked, disbelieving and desperate family who are struggling to take in the reality. I’m sure they’ll be having a ‘happy Christmas’ aren’t you?

I agree Hetty58. We have missed so much in 2020 that one missed Christmas will not be the end of the world. Far better to wait, now the vaccine is so close, and enjoy some family time next year. For those of us with even a low risk it just does not seem worth the gamble if it results in long term health problems - or worse.

FannyCornforth

Olive53

In October 2020, 43,265 people died
In October 2019 43,257 people died
In October 2018 41,466 people died

Where is the excess mortality?????

It's not just about dying though.
It's about being very, very ill and having to be hospitalised, and living with unknown consequences of the disease.
There is so much that is unknown about Covid, and I speak from personal experience.

.... and 500,000 with Long Covid.

I am of the same mind as those who would prefer not to have to make an active decision re the Christmas week.
It was so much easier when it seemed unlikely that we could meet with relatives. Especially as our family is complicated with step families and the numbers are larger than I’m comfortable with...

I’d rather wait until we have the option of a vaccination which would protect us and our loved ones too.

Olive53

In October 2020, 43,265 people died
In October 2019 43,257 people died
In October 2018 41,466 people died

Where is the excess mortality?????

In October 2020, there were 43,265 deaths registered in England, 2,713 deaths more than the five-year average (2015 to 2019) for October; in Wales, there were 2,992 deaths registered, 258 deaths more than the five-year average for October.

The age-standardised mortality rate (ASMR) of deaths due to COVID-19 in October 2020 was 63.5 deaths per 100,000 people in England and 81.9 deaths per 100,000 people in Wales; the COVID-19 mortality rate significantly increased compared with the previous month in both England and Wales.

ONS
www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/monthlymortalityanalysisenglandandwales/october2020

We hope to move to Scotland any time now - so will not be in England for Christmas. We will be at least 700 miles away from our families and current friends. My siblings are not happy about our move, but it's for health reasons (mostly for my husband - but it was my idea to move). Obviously, we could not possibly mix with family or friends, as a result, though we have said that we will come back to Lincolnshire for a short break and to catch up with everyone, once a year, in the summertime! I agree that many people will mix without any restrictions or health and safety type precautions. Unwise, but a huge temptation for many.

As planned, we will spend Christmas at home as our families are in schools, either as students or Teachers so we feel it is too risky. However, 92 year old MiL is insisting that she spends Christmas with the four adults and five school age children!

The second wave of deaths didn't start until the end of the second week of October.

Just because ‘they’ say we can, doesn’t mean we should or will.
There are usually 10 or 12 of us from Christmas Eve to the 27th but it will be very different this year. Ages from 4 - 88. School teacher, school children, college pupil included. We have not decided on anything yet for this year but we certainly won’t all be together.

Sparklefizz

pen50 Better early death after a happy Christmas than longer life but no festivities.

I'm speechless.

Me too. Well almost. How can pen50 wish an early death on all her family? There is no thought of others who will/could become infected.

I'm horrified.

So heartening to see these responses. Just how I feel. I know my daughter is worried that her brother and children will expect to come over ... and as so many have said all because ( for deeply commercial reasons) we can doesn’t mean we do so. As for the first to be vaccinated surely all those who work and reside in residential and nursing homes first so they can have visitors. It’s tragic how abandoned many of them must feel especially if they have dementia.

I agree. I really don't think it's worth taking a chance. Much as I would love spend Christmas with my daughters and grandchildren, I would rather wait until I was sure that it was safe. I would rather wait until Easter and then have a family gathering then - hopefully by then things will be much safer.