Amnesty International say - 'no such thing as a ‘biologically female/male body’'

They're not males with dresses on - they're females as far as I'm concerned. I don't understand why something personal to them has become a political issue.
I think it’s because the transactivist groups have made it one, Growstuff, and because of the way people like J K Rowling and Suzanne Moore have been vilified for expressing a viewpoint that the activists disagree with. As well as the stuff mentioned by Doodledog.
As soon as the personal affects other people, it becomes political.

What does living like a woman involve growstuff, I see it as a deeply sexist phrase. Nobody can ever describe what it means without relying on sexist stereotypes. We have explained really clearly why women are concerned.
One of my concerns is the homophobia that is always present in the discussion. 3 women a week are killed by men, if 3 women a week were being killed by lesbians I can tell you now we would know about it. 97 % of violent sexual assault is carried out by men. I am afraid singling out lesbians is homophobic, lesbians are women.

Let us not forget the trans activists twitter slogan is #nodebate.
That's right.. no debate.
They are saying "Women shut up and know your place".
As clearly demonstrated by the Twitter pile on JKRowling on her excellent article.

Where we are now..
Girl Guides who have girls who want to 'transition' into boys will be asked to leave when they are a boy(??)

Girl Guides groups will be required to accept boys who have 'transed' into girls.
The girls and leaders must accept this. The Girl guide leaders who have expessed safeguarding concerns have been asked to leave.

It isn't "safeguarding" to express transphobic views. Just as people would not be permitted to be GG organisers if they had unacceptable views about black people the organisation has made a policy about transpeople and everyone involved must abide by it.
It amuses me that the real transphobic views eventually emerge when you examine the so called concerns about safeguarding they are often presented as.
Galaxy it isn't helpful just to keep posting what does "living as a woman" mean. It is a term used to describe what transwomen have to do to change their gender. If you really don't know what it means I find it very strange that by opposing self ID you have condemned transwomen to continue doing something you don't understand.
Basically it would seem you don't realise they are using women's loos and changing facilities.

Basically it would seem you don't realise they are using women's loos and changing facilities
This is not about who uses the loos. It's about bending the law so far it erases the protected characteristic of sex.

janeainsworth

^They're not males with dresses on - they're females as far as I'm concerned. I don't understand why something personal to them has become a political issue.^
I think it’s because the transactivist groups have made it one, Growstuff, and because of the way people like J K Rowling and Suzanne Moore have been vilified for expressing a viewpoint that the activists disagree with. As well as the stuff mentioned by Doodledog.
As soon as the personal affects other people, it becomes political.

The two women I know who were born as males were friends of my children when they were young. I've known them since they were primary age. How do the lives they now live affect me or anybody else? They're both now in their twenties and I doubt if people meeting them now would know they were once male.

By coincidence I was having a discussion with the mother of one of them on Facebook yesterday. She doesn't understand why people get so wound up about it or why it's become politicised, not do a number of our friends. I wouldn't say she's an "activist", just a mother who loves her child very much and is glad that her daughter feels more comfortable in her own skin.

It isn't "safeguarding" to express transphobic views

And it isn’t “transphobic” to express safeguarding concerns.

Galaxy

What does living like a woman involve growstuff, I see it as a deeply sexist phrase. Nobody can ever describe what it means without relying on sexist stereotypes. We have explained really clearly why women are concerned.
One of my concerns is the homophobia that is always present in the discussion. 3 women a week are killed by men, if 3 women a week were being killed by lesbians I can tell you now we would know about it. 97 % of violent sexual assault is carried out by men. I am afraid singling out lesbians is homophobic, lesbians are women.

Living like a woman means exactly that. They have women's names, wear women's clothes, etc. They are women - just like you and I. They're not lesbians. They have fully transitioned.

Why is it relevant that 3 women a week are killed by men? The women I know aren't killers or sexually violent. They are women.

It seems to me that those are sexist stereotypes.

janeainsworth

^It isn't "safeguarding" to express transphobic views^

And it isn’t “transphobic” to express safeguarding concerns.

Why are men who have transitioned any more of a threat than other women?

growstuff I don’t know why it’s become politicised either, but it has. I think it’s just a part of the times we live in, when sadly most things have become polarised and reasoned debate seems to have no place in discourse.
When a long-standing journalist of Suzanne Moore’s calibre is forced out of her job by fellow journalists you’d better start worrying about the state we’re in.

Living like a woman

That could mean a wide range of options.

Why are men who have transitioned any more of a threat than other women?

Because they offend at the same statistical rate as males.

But since the crime will be recorded as a female crime, the statistics will start to change.

Sorry growstuff that's full of sexist stereotypes. Wonens clothes? You think clothes have any effect on being a woman. Its nonsense and sexist nonsense at that. Trisher I have been involved in this debate for five years I know many transwomen and talk about this with them, please dont tell me you I dont know about this issues. Its deeply patronising
The men I know arent sexually violent either but they are still not allowed in womens spaces.

Clothes, and names have absolutely nothing to do with being a woman. You arent breaking down gender stereotypes you are reinforcing them.

From the Guardian, 28.10.2020:

A prisoner who was allegedly sexually assaulted behind bars by another inmate has challenged the Ministry of Justice over its policy on placing transgender women in women’s prisons. The claim has been brought by lawyers on behalf of an unnamed woman who served nearly four years in prison.

In August 2017, while in HMP Bronzefield, in Middlesex, she said she was sexually assaulted by a trans woman prisoner who holds a gender recognition certificate (GRC). The MoJ does not accept that there was an assault.
The prisoner with a GRC, who allegedly carried out the attack, Monaghan said, had convictions for serious sexual offences against women but was housed in the general population of a women’s prison.

There are about 3,600 women in prison in England and Wales. They were, Monaghan added, “an especially vulnerable group”; 57% of them report having been victims of domestic violence as adults.

I think there is a court case pending re girl guides isnt there?

The Guardian 11.10.2018

Karen White, who sexually assaulted two women while on remand at New Hall prison in Wakefield in 2017, was born male and now identifies as a woman, was described by a judge as a "predator" who was a danger to women and children.
Despite dressing as a woman, the 52-year-old had not undergone any surgery and was still legally a male. She was also a convicted paedophile and on remand for grievous bodily harm, burglary, multiple rapes and other sexual offences against women.

In September last year she was transferred to New Hall prison in West Yorkshire. During a three-month period at the female prison she sexually assaulted two other inmates.

The decision to move White to a women’s prison was made public after she admitted in court to the sexual assault and to multiple rapes committed before she was sent to prison.

I believe so Galaxy
There are a few court cases going on covering the range of issues this subject invites.

We are led to believe "this never happens" when people have been voicing concerns for a long time.

Crikey growstuff I have just seen your last comment, under no circumstances do I think they are lesbians. You have got the wrong end of the stick there!

The men I know arent sexually violent either but they are still not allowed in womens spaces.

In that case thay cannot have legally transitioned then as one of the requirements of a legal transition is that the individual lives as the proprosed gender for two years.

Under the Gender Recognition Act 2004, UK adults can legally change their gender if they meet certain criteria. This means their acquired gender can be recorded on their birth and marriage certificates.
About 95% of applicants go down a standard application route, the main requirements of which are:
A declaration that they will live permanently in their acquired gender
A medical report of a gender dysphoria diagnosis
A medical report of any hormone treatment or surgery, or any planned treatments
Evidence they have lived full time in their acquired gender for at least two years, such as copies of their passport and driving licence
Applicants also must be 18 or over and pay a fee of up to £140

No trisher I know all that. My point was it doesnt matter whether a man is nice or not, we dont segregate by niceness we segregate by sex. It was in reference to someone describing their friends who are transwomen as nice, which I am sure they are. My brother and sons are not dangerous, they are nice, there should be spaces however where they are not allowed.

My brother and sons are not dangerous, they are nice, there should be spaces however where they are not allowed.

Such as women's refuges, women's prisons, women's detention centres, wards in hospitals for women, women's changing rooms and womens toilets.

All what you describe in your last post trisher is how the law is already accommodating the medical condition of gender dysphoria. It is entirely appropriate that the law is framed in this way.
I fully support this, however self ID will up-end this legal process and in doing so, will erode the rights of women and girls along with it.
All safe, single sex spaces will no longer exist.

And, BTW, I am bloody angry as now;
I am a person who menstruates (not a woman) although clearly I don't any more.
I am a person who has birthed not a mother.
I am a chestfeeder although when I fed my kids I was clearly using my breasts which were pretty impressive and turned a corner half an hour before I did. I was born with XX chromosomes which meant that I have female genitalia that over my life caused me to menstruate, ovulate, grow a baby in my womb, after giving birth my breasts naturally produced milk to nourish those babies, in other words biology caused those events. My husband couldn't do those things with his body. But now my very biology is being denied me to accommodate a small minority of people who want to be female but were born with XY chromosomes and apart from another small minority of people who are born with other combinations such as Klinefelters or Turners syndrome that is how the vast majority of us are made.
I have no issues with trans people whichever way they feel they are, neither do I have any animosity to those individuals who have an unusual syndrome but please let's not throw the baby out with the bath water, let the majority keep our hard won protection due to our biology but still acknowledge that others also need protection. Just not together.
One other point; are men now going to be, people with a prostate, or what?