Are the corona virus idiots doing us a favour?

There has been no herd immunity in the UK or anywhere else as far as Covid-19 is concerned. It's not even certain that there will ever be.

Please Google what it actually means. It's being thrown around as a term by people, without being understood.

I agree MaizieD Herd immunity was originally about disease in animals and is certainly not relevant in modern society, when there is more compassion, care and respect for human life??

The flaws in your argument, as I see it, are:

1)All the experts say that herd immunity is only achieved by vaccination
2) you can be reinfected with covid
3) it means thousands more dying than at present with preventative measures in place (though they are clearly not being carried out by everyone)
4) the NHS would be completely overwhelmed.

I'm sorry, but I think that depending on herd immunity, with all it implies, is heartless and not applicable in this day and age when people have more respect for life. I thought this had been ruled out months ago.

We will always have idiots, and they are far from doing us favours.
Vaccines are a bit of a waste of time DURING an outbreak.

I don’t think that there is a perfect solution to this problem, if I had one I would be far richer than I am now.

All I know is that I am worried I will catch it and die as I have immune deficiency due to the lack of a right kidney.
I keep away from idiots!!!

I believe that it will be possible to catch this virus more than once. Viruses mutate so that they can become more effective so each time it reinfects it will be a little different.
Look at how long the common cold has been around and nobody has yet become immune, likewise Norovirus which you can catch over and over.
I know we are going to be vaccinated but some of the vaccine is only between 62 and 90% effective.

Last April DD, front line worker, was ill, very tired, fever, sore throat, breathless and a dry cough but there were no covid tests available. Two weeks ago she had her bi weekly test at the hospital which was positive but she was only a little tired, which considering the long shifts and working weekends could have been normal. Since then, in isolation, she has not been ill like she was in April. Covid twice?

How exactly do you define what you call coronavirus idiots as a matter of interest?

Yes we all know the extreme examples of those who flout every regulation going, but judging from the seemingly endless threads with posters complaining about neighbours comings and goings,one person’s ‘idiot’ is another person who doesn’t want to spend month after month afraid to leave the house.

I haven’t congregated in a big crowd or broken any rules (as far as I know!) but we participated in the eat out scheme in August. We had a couple of short holidays in the summer and have had runs down to the coast for a walk in the sea air.
I did a lot of Christmas shopping online but I also went into shops once they reopened in early December.
All of those were before we were in tier 4 I hasten to add!

So can I be described as an idiot?
Possibly by some.

Anyway back to the question.
I guess herd immunity has been happening right from the start, and who knows whether that may have had a beneficial effect on the population.

As others have pointed out, lots of people have been completely asymptomatic so would have gone about their daily lives unwittingly infecting others thereby contributing to the herd immunity idea.

Some info on how long immunity might last after you’ve been infected.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52446965

Why delay a complete lockdown ? All that's been happening has been like closing the stable door after the horse has bolted.

Another thing people have been doing is crossing counties from a higher tier to a lower one.

Someone from this country has just taken the virus into Shanghai. Why the devil are flights still operating ? Unless it stops, the virus won't.

I thought you could get it again?

I understand that Grannynannywanny ( what a great name) but I am talking about those who have been in close contact to Covid cases with no PPE and have tested negative later. May be good luck but possibly immune.

AGAA4 a big problem is the fact that many who contract the virus are symptom free. They do not feel ill and are still walking around spreading it. Many were picked up in routine testing trials who would otherwise have gone unnoticed.

Why some are able to remain symptom free appears to be as yet an unsolved mystery.

There must be some immunity to covid as not everyone exposed to it gets it. I had Asian Flu in the 50s but none of my family went down with it not even my mum who nursed me.

It's interesting how you viewed it as a young person Bluebelle. I think one of my biggest worries is the emotional impact on my grandsons aged 5 and nearly 2. So many of the opportunities to play with friends have been restricted.
Yes everything from diets with a higher proportion of fast/processed foods to being relatively less active is catching up with us.!
I certainly think we should have stopped flights into the country.

dorsetcupcake it was me that mentioned living through two previous pandemics I think it may be more about worldwide aeroplane travel today and I think if in March we had closed the airports we wouldn’t be in this pickle today
Schools were certainly in older style draughtier buildings but in fairness the kids have been shivering with windows open this time There was less obesity, more exercise, less food, less diabetes and much less moving around perhaps they played a part Funnily enough I was living in HK when the HK pandemic was raging I have no knowledge of it whatsoever
I have a school friend who had the Asian flu but I guess we were told she was off with a cold I certainly never knew she’d had it I do however remember some years when classrooms were sparse with flu breakouts (not pandemics)

Oldwoman70

I think there have been reports of people catching it twice - so the "herd immunity" theory seems to be flawed. What is needed is for as many people as possible to get the vaccine.

The problem is on this thread is that people are using the term "herd immunity" differently. Herd immunity has "never" been achieved without a vaccine.

I see where you are coming from bluebellewould. I'm no expert but this virus seems very unique. It does appear that the concept of herd immunity just leads to the virus mutating further apparently.
A poster commented about previous pandemics and how they didnt seem as disruptive. Maybe it's a reflection on how much more complex our lives are? In general one wage was enough to support a family so maybe there wasnt the need for childcare and for school to act as much in that role. Maybe schools were bigger and more ventilation with smaller classes.
People shopped and worked more locally.
Arguably employee rights were better and employment more secure.
Access to online information and online communication methods can be massively helpful,it can also be a source of conflict and anxiety.
I'm not for one minute suggesting the past was a golden place. I do wonder however if how many people live their lives conflicts with what is needed to deal with this crisis as best we can.

Lucretzia I heard Sweden aimed to save the economy at the risk of losing the more vulnerable folk. Not sure how much of that was true as I heard it on BBC Radio 4.

My daughter, an nhs nurse, has had it twice 7 months apart. It was no milder the second time. She needed a course of steroids and inhalers to treat her lungs due to shortness of breath and wheezing.

She’s back at work but not yet back to full strength. She’s completely drained of energy when she gets home from work.

I think there have been reports of people catching it twice - so the "herd immunity" theory seems to be flawed. What is needed is for as many people as possible to get the vaccine.

The major flaw in this argument is the assumption that once people have caught the virus they will remain immune.

In addition I understand that if the virus spreads completely unimpeded it has the opportunity to continue constantly mutating, which may, after a while, result in a different type of disease.

How I hate people being called idiots, morons, stupid, selfish etc etc This is just more of the blame blame blame culture of everyone not following the very vague and ever changing ‘rules’ to the way that some people feel they should
shinamae I m Bluebelle
Funnily enough I don’t totally disagree with you bluebellewould although I don’t think we actually know enough at this stage if we knew you couldn’t catch it twice or even if we knew you could catch it twice but the subsequent times would be very much weaker then I think it’s much the best way to go for herd immunity with weak ill or old shielding if wanted /needed but I suppose it’s all too vague to point us formally in that direction
Although I will have the vaccine when offered I m not at all sure that it will be the be all and end all a lot are expecting it to be we don’t know if it will keep us safe for a month, three months, a year we don’t know if it will stop us passing it on
I haven’t read anything about Sweden lately they went from herd immunity to a semi lock down last time I read not sure where it stands now
It’s very true I lived through two worldwide pandemics without any memory of it no lockdowns, no big fanfares no Internet, no TVs with constant news (well we didn’t have TV) no worldwide panic My memory of it all is almost zero unfortunately our children and grandkids today will be damaged and changed unlike me and my generation

LauraNorder

I, like you Bluebellwould, don’t condone the mass gathering and selfishness of the ‘idiots’, but you have a point. Rolling out the vaccine as quickly as we can, coupled with the inevitable herd immunity caused by the selfish party goers, may help to get this over with.

I'm not sure what you mean. Party goers don't cause herd immunity.