British class system

We both self funded to gain education too but it was always valued in our working class families. Our eldest son thinks he is middle class though, in fact we refer to him as our middle class child. He was moaning his allowance didn't cover his food at university and when I questioned what he was spending it on wrt food, he was buying rib eye steaks and fresh tuna! It is funny how we classify ourselves though. My half sisters had a much more salubrious upbringing and yet the one writes about her working class upbringing and her struggles of being brought up in poverty (no it isn't Caitlin Moran)

I am often considered ‘posh’, almost entirely because I use Received Pronunciation and live in the north. Speech in this country is significant. I have always spoken the way I do. I don’t do it on purpose.

I think I am middle class, but not the moneyed variety. Both parents were graduates, I was educated at academic private schools (not boarding), but not ones you would have heard of. My senior school took a few pupils who were clever enough to pass the entrance exam, but couldn’t afford the fees. Thus one of my best friends came from a completely working class background - father a docker, no electricity, hot water or bathroom at home. This was in the 1950s. She was very ashamed of where she lived, which I thought was really sad. She is a prime example of social mobility, and I would call her middle class now.

I think we are kidding ourselves, or very unobservant, if we say class doesn’t exist. Of course it does, but I think it is much less important than it used to be.

I'm glad you're an "in between the two" bohemian and I think that gives some of us an edge in that we can adapt to any class you care to plonk us in. I was as equally happy at my rough London comprehensive as I was at my posh upper crust university and fitted in fine. Just a case of adapting. Confusing maybe, but there are far more important things in my life and I'm happy to play a bit of a game.

Thanks Ellianne. Very true for 'inbetweenies', we learn to adapt to any class at a very early age

It is different here and mainly based on how much money you have and ,in Victoria,level of education and which school you went to ( private or public) but quite subtle. More like America in some ways. We have ‘bogans’ which are equivalent to rough ones, what you might have called ‘chavs’ There is a ‘rough’ accent but I think you would have to live here to recognise it. The people who get paid the most tend to be tradies, certainly not academics! Plumbers are often very rich indeed.

Yes, tradesmen have far overtaken academics salary wise.

My lovely heating engineer is very young. But SO successful. Lives in the posh area of town. Young child he clearly nurtures and adores.

Very canny lad.

I find the idea that target audiences should be delineated by class interesting. I would have thought that by now the economic basis of class and taste would have been seen as not compatible. Think the Pitman Painters and Billy Elliott. But even more than that now the poor, educated, low earners. Equally the rich tradespeople who simply like poetry or the theatre or the aristo who doesn't. How can you possibly assign a certain type of literature on a class basis?
I do think that we now have less class mobility than at any time in the past, things changed in the 60s when some things opened up but they have closed down again. Particularly in the area of arts and music, in the 60s they gave outlets to working class people they are now dominated by privately educated individuals.

GagaJo

Callistemon, I LOVE the Two Ronnies sketch. I will have to use it in class. I had forgotten about it.

Same here! GagaJo last night in bed I was thinking (as one does) whether you were back in the UK or returned to Switzerland because of your job?

Cherrytree years ago in sociology, family class depended on the husband’s occupation, I challenged this during a lesson. Hopefully things have changed now, will have to check!

It depends what you choose to classify it by: House / Money / Education / Profession.

Taking all those into account, my lifestyle now defines me as middle class, probably even upper middle class.

Working class would define my upbringing in 1950s. Lived in social housing, secondary education, father and mother manual workers.

I changed my 'class' but it was kick started by my parents who didn't want me to be a manual worker (factory). They paid for typing lessons for me from age of 12.

I don't like the term class but agree that it's a classification needed and used by all sorts of institutions.

My father was a lawyer, educated privately and went Cambridge, his father was a barrister who never practiced as he had a private income. However we ended up living with my grandmother in her large house, not sure why. He had been a partner in a law firm in Hull. He bought a practice in Granny's town and proceeded to ruin it sharing his time between the pub and the betting shop. He inherited a large sum of money when my grandmother died and got through the lot in eight years! Went bankrupt, everything sold and they moved to Cyprus. I think I'm middle class!

I don't like idea of class I have been thinking of class the unfairness of it as people are born equal though some are seemingly more equal than others. It starts with the Royals born into undeserved wealth, bowing and curtsying, immense amount of privilege. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. They make our government more powerful than any other no checks or balances those in lords are unelected.

If we had a more socialist society there would be fairness a fair wage for a fair days work. Just human beings being human, a fairer society a little more equality, not class ridden not looking up to a Royal Family. Just people given a fair chance in society to do their best live their best helping each other, a good government to govern for the people not for themselves.

Utupia Grany in other words.
Communism failed on many levels.Actually, people are not all born equal very sadly.Some are born blind or deaf or (horribly) both! Plus all the other array of disabilities and illnesses and diseases that you can think of which limit their potential.
I know you will say that Socialism isn’t Communism (watered down version) but the best government is one that encourages potential and economic growth whilst making sure the disadvantaged can earn a living wage.
Class is still a feature, but is far less of an issue than it ever was.I suspect most people hardly give it a passing thought these days.

* Bluesky* thank you that is what I was wondering.
A throw back to when women were often at home and husbands the bread winner.
For generations our family was working class and proud.

However my grandparents (working class) put their only son through university.
He became a language teacher for all of five minutes, opened his own 'Hands on' business .
Had he climbed to middle class through gaining a degree?
Or was he still working class as his actul job did not require academic qualifications?

My aunt although very clever
(academically) was not 'put through university by her parents)

She like her brother opened her own business, she ran this very successfully with her husband and led a very middle class (money) life style.
At 50 she went to university and gained a teaching degree.

My mother married and worked in part time jobs .
Father was engineer officer in the merchant navy. Middle class?
Then went into sales.
So working class ?
Later in life (40) my father gained medical qualifications,
Middle class ?

Sorry it makes my brain hurt.

Lemon

People are equal in that they are unique in their own way.

the best government is one that encourages potential and economic growth whilst making sure the disadvantaged can earn a living wage yes I agree.

Class will always be there when there is a hereditary RF whether people care or not.

I can’t stand snobbery.

I think Grany that it’s more a case that class will always be there, full stop. No society has ever achieved classlessness, because some will always rise to the top, and some will sink to the bottom. It’s naive to suggest that it’s unique to societies with a Royal family, - look at Putin for example, Royalty with a different badge.

A lot has to do with accent. I find that people who speak correctly with a ‘posh’ accent are likely to be taken more seriously.

BlueSky

Cherrytree years ago in sociology, family class depended on the husband’s occupation, I challenged this during a lesson. Hopefully things have changed now, will have to check!

I think the first time I really became aware of class was when I was about 9yo. My school had a class captain system and I tied for the position with another girl. I didn’t know how it was going to be resolved until the teacher said that the other girl would get the job, because her father was a local business man and therefore more important than my father who was a mere employee, so it had to go to her. I was shocked to the core!

My mother was incandescent with rage and complained to the school but it didn’t change anything. What was ridiculous was that the other girl’s ‘businessman father’ was a barber with one shop. Perfectly respectable but hardly a wheeler-and-dealer!

My OH’s parents were so poor they couldn’t afford a council house until he was 15. They lived in a grim place with no bathroom or kitchen. OH was known as Gyppo at school. But, he passed his 11+, went to Grammar School and then Oxford. Now, he/we live in a large detached house, have several holidays a year (well, before the pandemic) put our three children through university. One had a BA, one a BA and MA and the youngest a BA, MA and PhD. So what class are we all? My mother came from an incredibly poor background. It was so grim she barely mentioned it. But she married a man - who became my father - who had been brought up in a beautiful house with an orchard etc etc. Admittedly his two sisters never really accepted mum. So, class eh? Don’t forget the daughter of an air hostess is the the mother of our future King.

Ladyleftfieldlover

A lot has to do with accent. I find that people who speak correctly with a ‘posh’ accent are likely to be taken more seriously.

There is a big difference between speaking correctly (ie grammatically) and having a "posh" accent.

There are many "posh" speakers who mangle the language and many articulate well educated people who do not sound posh.

I had this discussion with someone several years ago. I was born into a working class family, my husband was also working class. The person I was talking with told me that because of our financial position we were now middle class.

I told him I considered anyone who had to work in order to be able to live was working class - whether they were an unskilled manual worker or a highly educated professional person.

I consider myself working class as did my dear late husband. We were reasonably happy with our lot. He went to a comprehensive school and left with 2 '0' levels. A practical chap who worked at 'blue collar' jobs. A thoroughly nice and genuine chap. Practical and socially confident.

His brother got a scholarship to a minor public school and then went to a poly where he got an 'average' degree. I feel that he was too posh for the local kids to play with but too rough for the school - thus falling between two stools. He'd say he was middle class. Insecure and sensitive, he can be quite snippy - afraid of being found out and kicked back down again. His education gave him a well paid profession and a good pension but he never seems to be content or happy. What a shame.

I abhor the word ‘servant’. It really sets my teeth on edge. I prefer to think that some people employ and pay for ‘staff’.

I think that the class system is alive and well in GB, with roots firmly entrenched in the educational system. The old boys club has yet to be replaced with something more egalitarian. Look at the current chumocracy doing rather well at the moment. How many priministers went to comprehensive school? Probably less than have been to Eton. Ditto any other profession. It's interesting to note that some in the arts are playing down their upper class background as it's seen to be frowned on, much better to have pulled yourself up by your own bootstraps than admitting you got your break because of your parental connections.