Meghan and Harry. Has anyone changed their opinion post Oprah?

Message deleted by Gransnet. We've taken this one down as it quotes a post that we removed earlier.

David Olusogo- historian and TV figure says But this is not just a crisis for the royal family – but for Britain itself. Yet rather than use this moment to embark upon an honest national conversation about race and racism there will, I fear, be further demonisation of Meghan and Harry. Trapped in denial – about everyday racism, structural racism, slavery and empire – there are parts of British society that appear incapable not just of change but even of its necessary precursor: honest self-reflection.

You can read his excellent account here www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/09/harry-and-meghan-interview-this-is-not-just-a-crisis-for-the-royal-family-but-for-britain-itself?CMP=share_btn_tw

He has written extensively about the racial abuse he was subjected to as a child.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

In the specific context of M&H only H knows how it was said and only the speaker knows why. M can call it racist, but what she shouldn't have done was use it to justify a series of choices without also stating that she had taken it to the source and discussed it fully. In the absence of that level of transparency and fairness it doesn't belong in the public arena

Agree NellG.

When Harry turned up to the interview, there were 3 things he seemed keen to discuss ....... He said, My biggest concern was history repeating itself ............then you add race in and you add social media in. And when I’m talking about history repeating itself, I’m talking about my . . . my mother.
So predominantly the treatment of his mother was uppermost in his mind.
Oprah immediately jumped in with the question "because of mixed race?"
To which Harry replied "No, just the two of us to start with." He said he hadn't really given any thought to the race piece.
So it was Oprah who kept digging and steering the conversation round to race. It looked like someone (ie Meghan) had given her the agenda in advance.

Well if that's right Summerlove then they're making one hell of an assumption aren't they, on something that may or may not happen, and using it to accuse the RF of being racist.

I simply cannot understand how anyone can defend them.

It's good to see a post that's all about someone's positive experiences Missfoodlove.

Exactly Pantglas and it's really annoying how many choose to ignore that.

Pantglas2

“Although, if you had watched the interview, Harry and Megan stated that whoever was questioning the colour of the skin tone of any future children was worried about how that would look or what they would do if the baby was dark.”

They also stated that he was being denied Princedom on the basis of racism when it was constitutional. So much for truth to power eh?

That’s not how I took it, they said if he was denied a prince title once Charles was king it could be due to racism
They absolutely did acknowledge that they understood he wasn’t due that title at birth.

“Although, if you had watched the interview, Harry and Megan stated that whoever was questioning the colour of the skin tone of any future children was worried about how that would look or what they would do if the baby was dark.”

They also stated that he was being denied Princedom on the basis of racism when it was constitutional. So much for truth to power eh?

Emily49

Surely one is perpetuating racism by saying we can’t discuss a baby’s skin colour? As a global society we need to get to the point where skin colour is irrelevant, and the only reason for enquiring about it / musing on it, would be no different from mulling over eye or hair colour?

Being “colour blind” is actually just another form of racism. It was meant to help, and actually ended up hurting a lot more.
To deny seeing someone’s skin colour in essence is denying seeing the person.

It’s still doesn’t mean it’s OK to comment on somebody’s skin colour though.

Our SIL is BAME, he feels that the UK is not a racist country.
as he has had a great education here and is very successful.
He believes he has always had equal opportunities.
His colour or name have never been a barrier.

He has a degree a masters and his company are putting him through an MBA at Stanford.

He has lived in America and the Middle East but started life in a London council estate, his mum was a single parent.
His work ethic is tremendous, he would hate to think he got where he is through anything but hard work.

Lord Lieutenant Peaches Golding of BAME has said that the Royal's aren't racist as has the leader of the choir that sang at
H&M's wedding.

Anniebach

Who said whoever allegedly asked a question about a baby’s skin was worried ? Summerlove

I was quoting a previous post.

Although, if you had watched the interview, Harry and Megan stated that whoever was questioning the colour of the skin tone of any future children was worried about how that would look or what they would do if the baby was dark.

Emily49

Surely one is perpetuating racism by saying we can’t discuss a baby’s skin colour? As a global society we need to get to the point where skin colour is irrelevant, and the only reason for enquiring about it / musing on it, would be no different from mulling over eye or hair colour?

I'm not saying we can't - what I am saying is that we shouldn't at this stage out of an awareness that it is deemed as racism and it's not our shout. To say it is is acting from our position of privilege.

If we, as a society, can get to a stage where that discussion is not deemed racist by people of BAME origin, then we can adopt it as a normal part of conversation about babies. But not until then.

It's really hard to untangle, but we have to try I think.

“ I bet she hasn’t returned those ‘borrowed’ earrings!”

Oh she’s a thief now!!

Madgran That was my sticking point too - we do have to be able to talk about it openly, white people with all a faults need to be part of the discussion if thing are going to change. The hysteria and finger pointing tends to shut it down. I believe there are big differences regarding intentional racism and inadvertent, unconscious racism. Both need to be tackled.

In the specific context of M&H only H knows how it was said and only the speaker knows why. M can call it racist, but what she shouldn't have done was use it to justify a series of choices without also stating that she had taken it to the source and discussed it fully. In the absence of that level of transparency and fairness it doesn't belong in the public arena.

Surely one is perpetuating racism by saying we can’t discuss a baby’s skin colour? As a global society we need to get to the point where skin colour is irrelevant, and the only reason for enquiring about it / musing on it, would be no different from mulling over eye or hair colour?

NellG But...the intention was hopefully not racist in the M&H case and was intended to be an expression of concern over the child's welfare that was not received that way by being repeated and served second hand. Or at least I'd like to think that it wasn't said with malice and that's the way it happened

But that still leaves the fact that it was racist regardless of intent. It was still wrong and should have been tackled in house and not on TV where it has become a monster that is doing more damage than good to the efforts to counteract racism per se

I agree that it should have been dealt with behind closed doors, to explain, to educate, to consider solutions together!

I understand and agree that consideration of colour is racist. But if commenting on the potential racism a child might face, as part of a discussion of potential problems for a family/for parents etc ie potential racism from others outside of the family and because that child will be in the public eye ... I struggle to see that the person raising that as a possibility that the family/child might face, are themselves being racist. If this is the case then taken to the nth degree there are a heck of a lot of situations and issues that can't be raised or discussed because the person raising them will be being racist. Which doesn't bode well for building understanding and changing things for the better.

My conclusion is that all racism is unacceptable, but the racism we need to be concerned about primarily is that which prevents BAME people from having equal and unfettered access to all of the things we as white people take for granted. Like healthcare, education, housing, jobs etc etc - this should include a point in the very near future where the colour of skin doesn't even enter into the conversation because it wouldn't even be a concern for welfare because that would be equally assured

Yup - agree with all that!

Who said whoever allegedly asked a question about a baby’s skin was worried ? Summerlove

Emily49

ie seeing racism where non intended....

The thing is Emily, whether it was intended or not it is still racism. It may well not be the most malignant kind, but it's still a distinction. Because if a baby was assumed to be white, any other physical feature BUT its skin tone would be discussed.

In an ideal world the conversation would have been an opportunity fro the person making the comment to learn how it was racist and think how they could go forward making racism a thing of the past. Maybe they did/will. We'll never know.

Having said that I still think the way it was used by H&M is very shoddy.

Anniebach *if a person is called ‘a white privileged Male’ it
is racist, why not ‘a privileged Male?*

White privelege is not about privelege in terms of wealth or education or whatever. White privelege is for instance: a black man walking down the street and sees a police officer and is instantly on guard and very wary ...because of experience and/or known facts and statistics about the prevalence of stopping BLACK males and what has happened to some of them as a result of that ...as opposed to a white man who has the "privelege" of not being instantly on gaurd/wary because those facts/statistics are not there for WHITE men. That is just one example. There are many more!

Less downplaying of racism. No more pretending that being worried about a baby’s skin colour is the same as wondering about the colour of their eyes. No more putting up straw horses about “Can I say that? Does that make me a racist?” Pretending to be confused about what racism actually is.

???

ie seeing racism where non intended....

Perhaps the comment / question about M and H’s unborn child was not intended to be racist at all, but similar to the questions many parents / grandparents will have asked - I wonder if he / she will have red hair? Will the baby have your hair colour, do you think? Etc

Agree tickingbird