Meghan and Harry. Has anyone changed their opinion post Oprah?

Alegrias Spanish, mixed race, bisexual, whatever it is really doesn't matter and is certainly not always based on prejudices.
Try swinging it round to understand that the person who mentioned the baby's skin tone to Harry might actually have been very concerned about Harry himself. Maybe they have witnessed the struggles within him, maybe they have seen how he doesn't cope well. Maybe they just didn't want him to add to this.

It has been clarified by Harry that the skin colour mention was before he and meghan were even married.
_______________________________________
A line.

In what kind of world is it thought acceptable to warn your children about having a Spanish partner?!?!

I guess the answer is, the same one where people still think you should consider choosing your life partner and having children based on other people's prejudices.

But Lucca it is still said, maybe out of concern, maybe in jest, maybe out of ignorance.
It isn't just to do with colour either. Not so long ago I said to my DD "don't you think you've got enough problems on your plate without introducing a Spanish partner into the mix." GrannyRose is right to say it can be said because you care and because you want that person to think hard before embarking on a decision of a lifetime.

GrannyRose15

This has got us all talking about race and racism but don't you think that the whole point of the original "conversation" might have been exactly that - to get someone to think about race and the prejudice that any child might encounter. IMO it would be very foolish of anyone to embark on a marriage such as that of H & M without having such a discussion. Family members who cared about the couple would want to make sure they were not entering marriage naively.

Why should anyone need to have such a discussion ? This is the attitude of 50 years ago “but what about the children.?” I heard this from my parents and their friends when they heard of a ‘mixed marriage”. No way should it still be said,

OnwardandUpward

That's true Annie, except we don't have any facts of what was actually said. I think the mystery which was created has got everyone talking, but I think without it, everyone would have long tired of M&H.

It was clever of them from a tv drama perspective to create a mystery without any proof or facts, but incredibly divisive.

Your take on this fits well by me OnwardandUpward. I would go as far as to say the "mystery" that was created comes very close to being a downright lie. Not necessarily what was said, but how it was said and what WASN'T meant by it. Harry obviously wasn't over concerned as he didn't mention it to Meghan until months later. Or maybe he did mention it earlier but it didn't suit her narrative at the time before the wedding.
You are right, the audience is cleverly left hanging like in a TV drama. I wonder how long we will have to wait for the real proof. Harry and the person are the only ones who have proof.

This has got us all talking about race and racism but don't you think that the whole point of the original "conversation" might have been exactly that - to get someone to think about race and the prejudice that any child might encounter. IMO it would be very foolish of anyone to embark on a marriage such as that of H & M without having such a discussion. Family members who cared about the couple would want to make sure they were not entering marriage naively.

And yes, another day in flipping lockdown paradise tomorrow. Sigh
.
Ain't that the bloody truth!

maddyone If I was Vietnamese I could agree. The main point being that because I am white and you are white (I assume?) we can refer to each other as white without 'othering'. If we were both Vietnamese, being white would be 'other'. It's not the colour as such, it's the use of it to create difference where there should be none.

And yes, another day in flipping lockdown paradise tomorrow. Sigh.

Goodnight.

Above just another thought on it. Doesn’t matter if you don’t agree. It’s just another thought, before I go to sleep. To dream of another exciting lockdown day tomorrow. I’m sure that’s why we’re all on here, not a lot else to do.

NellG Thanks

During the Vietnamese war, many Americans, many black, but primarily white soldiers, fathered children with Vietnamese women. The resulting children were shunned by the Vietnamese because of their different skin colour and appearance. I expect many of those girls and their families wondered ‘what if they come out white, or really pale white, how will you feel and how will you manage with other people’s opinions of it?’

I get it. I just think if we are conjuring up what might have been said, that's not what was actually said and it's like jumping to conclusions or rumours.

Without hard fact, it's impossible to know. I do know one thing though, constructing a mystery is a way to get talked about and not forgotten.

No worries maddyone, I can't win them all!

NellG

But Annie you think I'm racist for calling people white! If there was a conversation about skin colour what else could it be?

If it’s racist to speak of Archie’s skin colour, then it follows that it’s racist to speak of anyone else’s skin colour. It can’t work only one way, though I’m sure there are many who would like it to.

NellG
I understand your point, but don’t agree. The article doesn’t persuade me at all. We will have to agree to differ on this one I think.

That's true Annie, except we don't have any facts of what was actually said. I think the mystery which was created has got everyone talking, but I think without it, everyone would have long tired of M&H.

It was clever of them from a tv drama perspective to create a mystery without any proof or facts, but incredibly divisive.

Annie If I were to say about a GC of yours "Oh God, it's not going to grow up with a welsh accent and a passion for leeks is it? Next thing you know it'll be down the pit singing ruddy Men of Harlech. What are you going to call it, Taffy Jones? Well, you know what they say, best thing that ever came over the severn bridge was an empty bus with an English driver. Hahahaha"

Would you not feel pretty offended? Those things aren't skin colour but they are offensive stereotypes that should never be spoken to someone, even as a joke. Discussing the colour of someone's skin is as, if not more, offensive because being Black has an unspeakable history.

It's normal to wonder who the new baby will look like and which features it will take! It's also possible (using the power of suggestion) to make people think a racist comment happened when in fact it may have been an innocent comment to suggest the baby may take after it's Maternal Grandma.

We cannot know a racist comment happened when we do not have the facts, only the power of suggestion

NellG if both parents are white asking if the baby will be white is pointless surely as is asking if both parents are black will the baby be black,

It is natural to talk about what a new born will look like , to expect this to stop is daft, and to talk of it doesn’t mean concern , I wondered if my 3 grandchildren would have red hair like their father or dark brown like their mother, it’s what
people do.

Where will this all stop, don’t wonder if the baby will be a boy or girl.

Smileless2012

So what are you suggesting Summerlove? Charles has made no secret of his desire to slim down the monarchy, will he be able to do so when it comes to Archie without being called a racist?

Or will he have to go down the route of positive discrimination, giving Archie the title of Prince at the expense of others?

Talk about setting someone up for a fall.

Simply that we don’t know the reasons why anyone does anything.

We can guess, but none of us know

Annie perhaps one day it wont be, but for now the difference is this: no one has ever said of someone's potential future children "What if they come out white, or really pale white, how will you feel and how will you manage with other people's opinions of it?"

Hair colour, eye colour, shape of ears, size of feet, who they might resemble are cross race, cross ethnicity questions. Colour of skin is not, it only goes one way. "What if the children come out looking black/brown/half caste?"

You know just typing that feels, and is, wrong, but it has to be that stark to make the point.

The fact that it's racist needn't be an angry accusation, but a point made from which we move forward inclusively to a stage in the future where having a conversation about how a baby will look will not be a concern, but that can only be when there's nothing to worry about. Until we admit we hold racist ideas and that we defend them we can't even begin to get to that point.

In a really succinct way, no one ever stopped you doing or saying anything just because of the colour of your skin.

NellG why oh why does any talk of skin colour have to be racist ,

www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/mental-mishaps/201601/the-unshakeable-power-rumor

Here's a part I took from the link above:
"This is the power of rumor and innuendo. You can lead people to certain conclusions through suggestions and partial information. Once they have followed the implications to the obvious conclusion, that conclusion will stick. Discrediting the incorrect rumors and providing more complete information isn’t enough to get people to change their beliefs. I’m sure you can recall similar instances in the real world—times when rumors and innuendo have ruined someone’s reputation; times when incomplete information about a political candidate led people to the wrong conclusions. "

The power of suggestion can be quite damaging to anyone in a political career or prominent position. It can be a calculated plan to take someone down- a half truth can do that. A suggestion of an event, rather than an actual description of an event can do that.

tickingbird

Lucca
Oh she’s a thief now!

Nice try but rather desperate.

Hardly.