On borrowed time - the royals

Anniebach

the only royals carrying out public duties are the children of the monarch, Charles, Anne and Edward, the heir has one child William, yes the wives of Charles , Edward and William
also carry out public duties, 7 members who carry out public
duties . Which of these should go ?

Anne, Edward, and his wife.

Actually, William and Kate too - they are of working age and could be continuing in their careers while Charles gets ready to take over.

BTW - the heir has 2 children, he's just ignoring the other one.

Yes, I agree with some others. QE has done a good job. But I think we should finish with her.

IF there was an OK replacement waiting for her in the wings, I would think we should go on with a monarchy, in the way some other countries have them. Very minor positions. HUGELY reduced public funding.

However, I don't think Charles fits the bill. And although I used to feel William did, am beginning to think he also is not up to the job. Persistant rumours of ongoing affairs. Problems with his brother. I fear he is a chip off the Charles block.

So I think ultimately, end the monarch when the Queen dies.

Bowing I understand, but what exactly is scraping?

I always find the anti-royal threads rather mean-spirited and sad. There often seems to be an unreasonable, and to me inexplicable, degree of bitterness in them.

*Here you go Grandma70s:

James Rogers, The Dictionary of Clichés (1985) has this:

Bow and Scrape. Behave obsequiously or with great deference. The term refers to the habit, in former times, of the excessively servile to bow while simultaneously scraping a foot backward. It had appeared in print by 1646, in Jeremiah Whitaker's Uzziah: "Have you not known some in a low condition, to bow and scrape"?

Elegran how kind of you to explain reorganisation of your husbands filing system so well because as a retired civil servant I wouldn't know anything about that.

No one is suggesting doing anything rash.

Agree with most of this. QE has been an exceptional Head of State, can't think of anyone who could succeed her, can't imagine anyone bowing, curtseying, and paying homage to King William.

The whole idea of kingship with Princes, Dukes, Earls, Knights, Dames etc. is positively medieval. We need to bring the system up-to-date.

But how? ?

Grandma70s not bitterness just pointing out to royalists that maybe the RF are not as good or a proper functioning as its meant to be Head of State that people are led to believe in the fawning royal press coverage. We could get a lot better for less.

And we would have a properly written constitution that people can read about what our country stands for.

The heir is not ignoring the other one, he has stopped giving them money and the other one is out for revenge because he couldn’t have everything his way, a tantrum is best ignored

nadateturbe I could use you here! I am sure that you recognise the need to have a detailed new system prepared well before abandoning the old one, but some of the Republican enthusiasts on here do sound as though they just would line up everyone with Windsor blood against the wall and machine-gun them, then start the planning.

After the queen has died a public conversation should take place about our head of state. It’s ridiculous that in a 21st century democracy the people do not get to vote on who the head of state should be and also that we do not have a proper constitution. I read a suggestion that each country in the union should be able to vote for their own head of state and between the four they would be able to make sure that no prime minister can act unlawfully. The House of Lords is another institution that requires democratising and should be part of the conversation.

I have an idea that this kind of conversation took place when Queen Victoria grew old, nobody could imagine how Bertie could be King but in the event he was found to be an excellent King during his short reign. I am afraid there will be no time for conversations as Charles is one heartbeat away from being King.

Grany

Here you can read see about the Royals and secrecy NellG And by the way I didn't accuse you of being a sun reader It was a statement about the way people in general pick up news about RF m.youtube.com/watch?v=pSQyDNN4BYg&t=162s

Grany I think assuming that everyone is being duped by what paper they read is just a weak argument, doesn't matter which paper. It's a logical fallacy that weakens the argument. I understand the call for a republic, I just don't agree with it - not because I'm a raving royalists , sitting here with my stuffed corgi and clutching my souvenir royal wedding tea towel, but because I've done my homework over a lifetime, considered the arguments both ways and see no gain. Unelected or not, better the devil you know, and in a world where true democracy cannot exist it's the safer option IMO. But I am always happy to receive new information and revise my view, it just has to be good information from a reliable source as well as being radically convincing.

PS, you can call me what you like, I don't mind, but don't let it weaken the argument

After the Queen dies it would be too late to have that conversation (and it should be a conversation , undertaken by all parties with the emphasis on the best way forward for the whole country, not as an exercise in throwing aristocrats to the guillotine)

Suppose the "conversation" decided, after Charles had succeeded to the throne and perhaps been crowned King, that what was preferred was a Republic? Would he just get sacked, with no severance pay and no reference? That would be most unfair, whatever your monarchy/republic views.

Also, you would be faced with a vacuum - no head of state at all and no-one authorised to sign Acts of Parliament. There must be continuity and a peaceful transition, no chaos and potential Civil War, as in the US between presidents.

Anniebach

Who is Charles mistress ?

She is now his wife. I have no respect whatsoever for anyone who behaves as she (and he) did.

Wait for the “ah but what about Diana?”..........

Grandma70s

Bowing I understand, but what exactly is scraping?

I always find the anti-royal threads rather mean-spirited and sad. There often seems to be an unreasonable, and to me inexplicable, degree of bitterness in them.

How is it bitter to have an opinion about the system of monarchy in our country? It is no different to holding a political opinion.

I Totally agree with everything you say nanna8
It’s about time we got rid of the over privileged monarchy and all their hangers on, look what this country could do with all the priceless works of art and Jewell’s we supposedly own
Wouldn’t the money be better spent on the country and not in vaults

Elegran

After the Queen dies it would be too late to have that conversation (and it should be a conversation , undertaken by all parties with the emphasis on the best way forward for the whole country, not as an exercise in throwing aristocrats to the guillotine)

Suppose the "conversation" decided, after Charles had succeeded to the throne and perhaps been crowned King, that what was preferred was a Republic? Would he just get sacked, with no severance pay and no reference? That would be most unfair, whatever your monarchy/republic views.

Also, you would be faced with a vacuum - no head of state at all and no-one authorised to sign Acts of Parliament. There must be continuity and a peaceful transition, no chaos and potential Civil War, as in the US between presidents.

I don't think anyone is suggesting a revolution and aristos' heads on stakes Elegran .

But somebody will be monarch when we have this conversation, we can't avoid having it just because we've got somebody in post.

And I'm guessing you're being flippant about the severance pay and references? I'm guessing Charles Windsor esq. wouldn't be too hard up in his old age.

Like any other country where power shifts, the person at the helm when it changes just steps down. Charles has his own home. He'd just go back there. He'd go from being an exceptionally wealthy public man to an exceptionally wealthy private man.

I have been enchanted by the myth of the British Royal Family, and am sorry to have to be reasonable. I only wish there was a way to retain the ceremonials with gorgeous horses and carriages, and also the fascinating personalities, while depriving the monarchy of its undue powers.

Thank you Lucca.

‘Ah what about Diana’ ?

PS it is of course, not only the monarchy that needs changing. It is also the entire class system with its oligarchs and to a lesser extent landed aristocrats all of whom exert too much power over the rest of us especially poorer people.

Before the monarchy is changed it is more important to change the laws on who owns most of the land mass of Britain.

Will those who hold the Queen in high regard simply switch allegiance to King Charles to uphold the support for a Monarchy? The Queen has been above reproach but Charles brings quite a back story to the roll. My view is that reverence for the RF will naturally diminish as we old retainers peter out.

Agree totally Parsley. The view of the RF on Mumsnet is VERY different to the view on here.

Alexa

PS it is of course, not only the monarchy that needs changing. It is also the entire class system with its oligarchs and to a lesser extent landed aristocrats all of whom exert too much power over the rest of us especially poorer people.

Before the monarchy is changed it is more important to change the laws on who owns most of the land mass of Britain.

I agree Alexa