On borrowed time - the royals

Very Well Said trisher

Meanwhile, income from the Duchy of Lancaster and the Duchy of Cornwall – despite belonging to the nation - goes directly to the Queen and Prince Charles respectively, depriving the treasury of tens of millions of pounds every year. Plus P Philip I know he's not well now at 99

He gets 400,000 a year so The RF have a ton of money receive a ton of money

The question of the monarchy could be addressed as part of a Constitutional Commission.

If it was decided that we'd have a better future without a monarch, then Queen Elizabeth II, our longest reigning queen and so widely admired and respected, would be a fitting Last Monarch.

If we needed a president for purely ceremonial and symbolic reasons perhaps we could, say every five years, invite applications from citizens over the age of eighteen and chose a president randomly from those that apply.

trisher is right again. Or should we not have changed any laws or institutions for the last 3-400 years.

Elegran

When it was instituted isn't in question, but it is a fact that the state gets an income in perpetuity from the lands it acquired in the deal.

I can't think of many situations where a legal precedent set in the 1700s is still applicable today. Most are updated to fit in with democracy and human rights. This whole thing is an anachronism introduced because a profligate king couldn't pay his debts and maintained to benefit a family who do very little but cost much. I'd rather have one HofS and the £19.1million each of the others costs spent on the NHS, education and policing. The RF is anyway just a 20th century invention. It didn't exist in the past as a state entity. Indeed most of the monarchs spent their lives at odds with their children.

I would rather have a royal family than a president anyday. Just seen a photo of Prince Philip leaving hospital. Don't think he has much time left. Hope he spends it with people he loves.

Don't agree with having what amounts to a whole weird extended family as our head of state - surely we only need one person as in Scandinavian model - if we stay with monarchy at all? (Still to see proof that their blood is actually blue rather than red like us peasants )

When it was instituted isn't in question, but it is a fact that the state gets an income in perpetuity from the lands it acquired in the deal.

Elegran I thought we weren't going back into the past and the many anachronisms and disreputable incidents in the RF. But if we are let's be honest. The RF as such has no hereditary right to anything. It's been imported from various foreign families and used to keep protestantsm as the major religion of the country. But any idea that they are somehow British with historical rights over any land is completely wrong. And why something insituted in the 1700s should be considered applicable to life in2021 I don't know.

trisher How much did the state get from the deal centuries ago for the Sovereign to hand over the income from the Crown Estates and instead get money as the Civil List (now renamed) to pay their expenses? At the moment that income is 85% to the state, 15% to the Sovereign. How much in £££ has the State received? That can be set against what is spent on the RF on top of the 15%

It is noticeable that the " insistence on the antiquated protocols and pointless archaic etiquette " is more in evidence with the event organisers and a few lesser royals from lower down the list of heirs than with the Queen. I have never heard of her having a strop because someone got the etiquette wrong, but I have heard of minor royalty being put out if they are not shown suitable precedence.

Spending money on the purposes for which it is paid to her? (Money which was granted to the Sovereign for those purposes centuries ago in return for the surrender of he profits from land and property which were at that time privately owned by the then sovereign and gave them their income 85% of those profits now go into the state purse and 15% to the sovereign or the expenses of the job.)
The idea that the Sovereign grant represents the real cost of the RF is ludicrous. Their total cost including security is considerably more. It is estimated at around £354 million a year that's £19.1 million for every working royal. Protection for Obama and his family cost around $97million in the 8years he was in office. So are they good value?

As in 2016 - not 2916!

Boogaloo

"I find the argument that we might end up with someone like Trump/Putin/Blair quite scary..."

No mention of Biden or Obama I see. Obama and his awful wife divide our country racially and Biden, who didn't even win, has dementia. We don't really know who's leading the free world right now.

What wars did Trump start? He brought jobs and prosperity to the U.S.

For God's sake keep the Monarchy!

Biden DID win, in spite of Putin's best efforts to re-elect his puppet Trump, who he boosted successfully in 2016.

There is now evidence that in 2020, as in 2916 Putin interfered with the US election in support of Trump.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-us-canada-56423536#aoh=16159645942298&csi=1&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s

Well, Britain clamoured to become a monarchy again after Cromwell, so much so that what was created after his son was booted out of parliament are same laws/statutes/instruments that entrench the monarchy today. There is a morbid fear in this country regarding republican rule and ultimately people seem happier to accept an inherited right to wealth and privilege than an elected one. Better the devil you know?

vegansrock

If it really was “better than the alternative” we would find republics clamouring to become monarchies. Don’t see many of them.

Spot on vegansrock! Although I'm in no doubt that someone will be along in a minute to tell us that they would all really like to have a monarchy likes ours if they could!

Regarding Michelle Obama, I would recommend her autobiography. I think she's brighter than her husband and would have made a great President, but I think they were wise enough to know that the electorate wouldn't go for a person of colour and a woman all in one jump.

Back in 1953, my much older brother slammed out of our house (on a large council estate), where my parents and neightbours were watching the tiny tv screen of the coronation. As he went, he shouted 'Her son will never wear the crown'.

My brother has been dead for some 15 years now, but I really regret that I never took a bet on his words many years ago.

If it really was “better than the alternative” we would find republics clamouring to become monarchies. Don’t see many of them.

^In a poll recently Republic 34/66 monarchy
A significant improvement from 20/80^

Significant indeed.
Informative post Grany. I find it hard to believe that anyone could support the financing of this luxurious lifestyle.

I too am tired of the silly "better than the alternative" argument.

OMG, Trump supporter approves of the monarchy. They obviously believe the Donald should be king. What’s the betting Ivanka stands for president next time. I agree Michelle Obama would be a great president.

Boogaloo

"I find the argument that we might end up with someone like Trump/Putin/Blair quite scary..."

No mention of Biden or Obama I see. Obama and his awful wife divide our country racially and Biden, who didn't even win, has dementia. We don't really know who's leading the free world right now.

What wars did Trump start? He brought jobs and prosperity to the U.S.

For God's sake keep the Monarchy!

Do you understand the difference between having a head of state and a head of government ( our system) and the US system where the posts are combined? Btw I think MO is lovely ?

No way There are a lot of decent intelligent people in UK who could put themselves up for Head of State Not the dulards we have as RF

"I find the argument that we might end up with someone like Trump/Putin/Blair quite scary..."

No mention of Biden or Obama I see. Obama and his awful wife divide our country racially and Biden, who didn't even win, has dementia. We don't really know who's leading the free world right now.

What wars did Trump start? He brought jobs and prosperity to the U.S.

For God's sake keep the Monarchy!

We could get a lot better for less

I've been rather surprised at the young people in my world who are quite keen on the Monarchy.

When I was young I had zero interest in them. We could have become a republic and I'd not have been remotely bothered.

However I am now more than happy to have them.

Maybe getting older, some of us appreciate having them rather than the alternative.

Okay for a start The RF spends public money day in day out, nothing is ever said, on their hobbies interests, sports golf hunting shooting, whatever. They cost an awful lot not all travel is itemised in their annual financial report by the palace those trips costing from £15000 are not included. Then there is the around the clock security £105 million for their 19 residences, this is separate from the £82 million sovereign grant. Then their days out local council bare the cost of these a few millions.

The Duchy does not pay corporation tax even though it's run like a business, a billion pound business, giving Charles an unfair advantage. He get 22million at the last count this will increase each time, same as the SG So when everything is included the RF costs £245 million

The queen has a say in over 1000 laws uncovered in the archives including you bet laws that affect her private interests.

The paradise papers discovered that the queen had millions in these off shore tax havens.

This is corruption using public office for private gain.

She has had a very pampered life.

In a poll recently Republic 34/66 monarchy

A significant improvement from 20/80

The younger people would like an elected president The older people 70s onwards a monarchy