Are you okay? Are you really okay?

Katel1949 - I feel for you.
It is not easy to talk to people about our deepest fears and feelings.
In many cases probably easier to talk to a helpline as then it is someone independent.
If my family ask how I am I always say I'm fine.
Because if I try and explain otherwise they will usually try and offer a quick fire solution or I tend to hear about their current problems which lately I have found stressful, so now receiving weekly counselling through MIND, via Zoom.

First I must say your son sounds most considerate.
I had difficult times when I married my first husband to whom I had my children but I divorced and moved on.
I remarried and our life improved dramatically I have a lovely family and three little granddaughters. I am missing my family and not cuddling my little granddaughters its unbearable. Lately I have been tearful it’s not me I am usually a strong person.
Our friends are all in the same boat but we have supported each other via WhatsApp. But I have noticed each one of us is crumbling under the stress their husbands included. We all retired about eighteen months ago around about the same time as each other. This retirement has been so far a nightmare we just want it to end.
I will say this we really do ask each other constantly how we are and support each as best we can. Thank you for starting this discussion.

Haven’t read the thread yet, but will do in a minute. Just wanted to answer the question quickly, because no, I am absolutely not okay. I’ve absolutely had enough of it all. I’m sick of having our civil liberties curtailed. I got serious Covid despite being extremely careful so lockdown didn’t help me. I was hospitalised for twelve days and was extremely ill. Now I’ve more or less recovered I want my life back.

A family member of mine had a breakdown over the Christmas period, after being mentally stable for some time. They were, on the outside, behaving normally, going to work etc but I spoke to them on the phone a few weeks before and I mentioned to my husband I didn't think things seemed as they were. Obsession with a neighbour, non stop manic talking, lots of laughing. Mental illness isn't just about being sad is it? thankfully the MH crisis team were fantastic and everything is much more positive now. It's so complex.

I am sorry about your daughter Anniebach

Kate1949 if you're ill, it can be all about you until it doesn't need to be any more.

My heart goes out to anyone who has lost a loved one through suicide. It's hard to imagine how you cope with that.
One thing I am sure of is that it's not your fault. No matter what we say or do, if someone feels desperate enough to do this then any words we say won't stop them.
At present most of us are in varying degrees of being fed-up, depressed, etc. I'm not sure how to spot the signs of someone who is more than just fed up.
For myself, I am aware that I keep saying "I'm fine" or
"I'm ok" when asked. If I even hint at not being fine it seems to upset my family members dreadfully, so I shall carry on
saying I'm fine even though I know on some days that I am desperately hanging on, - like many of us I suspect.
I try counting my blesssings every day, I know I am lucky compared to many.

I may not prevent a tragedy, but it certainly wont do any extra harm. If it can be followed up by "how can I help, what do you need for this to feel better" and a willingness to sit with someone and tolerate their pain alongside them it can make a huge difference.

The one absolute is not making it about how that person is making you/everyone else feel - many at the point of suicide will just do you the favour of removing themselves and ceasing to be a problem to you.

Having said that, I think the OP is more suggesting that we try and show each other we care a bit more often so that some people don't end up at the point of suicide.

Thank you grannyactivist. I too have seen the stuff on TV about asking 'Are you OK' twice. The trouble is, I find, that nobody really wants to know.
I'm not OK much of the time due to traumatic life events but if anyone asks I say I'm fine. Occasionally if I have said that I don't feel good, I have been reminded that I am lucky and that there are people worse off. As if I didn't know that. On my last visit to my GP, I broke down and she couldn't get me out of there quick enough. To most people it's seen as whinging so I keep quiet.
My brother took his own life at a young age so I know the horror of that in the family. I would never go down that road but some days it's hard to get up in the morning. In my experience it's only on TV shows that people are offered real help.
Also, there is the stigma. I want to be OK and not 'one of those people who needs help'. I thought twice about posting this as I worry about making everything about me.

Thank you for asking grannyactivist I think my answer has to be 'better than I was a month ago' now that we are seeing a glimmer of light. I felt the relief once I knew DH and DDs 1&2 had been vaccinated Oh and me.

I attended a Mental Health First Aid Course a few years ago and the overriding message was that we should not be afraid to ask the blunt question “Are you feeling suicidal?”
Asking if someone is really ok is a good way to lead up to this hard question to ask. The course leader told us how a friend had helped her by asking it. But as has been said this does not apply to the tragedy of quiet determination.

I agree with Anniebach, that this idea of asking the right questions will prevent a tragedy.
In some cases it just might, but often there is a back story or events leading up to it that are not preventable by friends and relatives.
Thinking back through my own life I'm aware that when i was going through really difficult times was often the time when I was putting my make up on and smiling through even more to the outside world.
A bit like if I acted like all was well, at some stage it soon would be.

My late father always asked me how I was when I phoned, he always asked twice saying really, how are you on the second time. I miss him so much.

Anniebach please don’t think that ....if someone is so unwell they feel the only way out is to leave this life there really is nothing else you could have done.You did everything possible and gave your daughter all the love and support anyone could give.
I too watched the Caroline Flack programme with a sinking heart it’s almost as if there was no other way, almost as if it was pre designed to be her path. It was even more poignant because her twin seemed to have inherited the sensible stable quieter mind while Carolyn inherited the more over active funny, extrovert but troubled mind both coming from the same parents Such an interesting subject and takes us back to the nature/nurture question
Grannyactivist I wasn’t dismissing your advice just pointing out that is just so complex and most contemplating suicide will say they are fine however many times asked which doesn’t mean we shouldn’t ask but it is so much more of a complex situation Many suicides happen when people seem to be getting better

There is so much needs to be learnt about our brains, our inner feelings and our means to deal with situations it’s a minefield

True Urmstongran , i speak openly about my darling daughter not for sympathy but because I have spoken out about mental illness for years , thankfully there is a breakthrough from years of - ‘pull yourself together’.

Your tragic experience bears out what that GP said all those years ago Anniebach. He said ‘a quiet determination is not the same as a cry for help’. Sadly.

Iam64, spot on! Autoimmune conditions are usually hidden, it makes it so much harder.
I met someone recently who was shocked at how unwell I have been , ....but you always look so well!.

My darling daughter took her life 3 years ago last November , she had attempted taking her life several times, if only asking
‘Are you ok, are you really ok ?’ was the answer .

This troubles me sorry, it leaves those whose loved one took their lives asking themselves- did she die because I didn’t ask
the right question.

I’m sorry I won’t be able to return to this post for a while as I have a busy day/evening ahead of me, but I promise I will read and respond to posts at some time - as soon as I’m able to.

Cross posted with you there Marydoll. Those of us with autoimmune conditions are almost certain to have experienced anxiety and depression. Part of living with pain, fatigue and other physical health problems linked to auto immune problems, for most of us, means we learn to say we are fine - when we aren’t.
There’s also as you say, stigma attached to m.h. Problems. When I was first diagnosed with a raft of AI problems in my mid 40’s, I lost count of the number of people who told me it could all be cured by diet and yoga ?. As if.

A poignant post Marydoll ?

Thank you grannyactivist for starting this discussion. It’s an emotional minefield.

Thanks grannyactivist, such an obvious point, the are you really ok? I’ll remember that.
This challenging year, alongside the Meghan and Harry interview, has led to awareness of m.h. issues being more openly discussed. To dismiss someone’s claim to have experienced suicidal thoughts, as Piers Morgan did contributes to the shutting down of open discussion.

Grannyactivist, I have always enjoyed reading your posts and have great respect for what you do for others.
Once again, a thought provoking post. I'm so sad to hear how you are feeling.

I think we can be so busy being strong and supporting others, that we neglect our own needs to the detriment of our physical and emotional wellbeing and physical health.
When people ask, my stock phrases is, I'm fine, because I want to protect my family and friends and don't want them to worry.

Recently I had a very enlightening conversation with one of my children about my failing health. He said that by saying that I was OK and covering up, it was having a detrimental effect on the mental and emotional wellbeing of my three children, because I have never told them how ill I actually am now. They have been so used to my ill health over the years. However, after recent episodes, they were all thinking the worst case scenario for me, without actually having any details.
By saying I was fine, I was actually making things worse for everyone.
One of my consultants kindly said the same thing to me.
Although I appear very open and will tell my life story to anyone, who will listen, I keep those innermost feelings to myself.

Suffering twice from a combination of psychosis due to a severe reaction to high does of oral steroids and post partum depression, I did on a few occasions consider suicide, not helped by mother telling me to pull myself together or she would have me committed. She should have known better, she was a former midwife.
Unless you have been in that dark, dark place, you cannot imagine what it is like. No one could have stopped me, if I hadn't eventually received help.
Initially, I covered up really well. It was actually my lovely respiratory consultant, who had prescribed the steroids, who realised what was going on and he contacted my shocked GP.

Even, if you ask me today if I'm really fine, I will say I am. There is such a stigma attached to mental health issues.

Grannyactivist ?

Someone of 43y took his own life last week. He was home alone. His loving family are devastated as you can imagine grannyactivist. Outwardly, apparently all was fine. Until it wasn’t.

I watched the documentary about Caroline Flack a few nights ago. She was beautiful but fragile. Her mother said she constantly craved affirmation and approval. Her anxiety and low self esteem, plus episodes of self harming sadly, were well hidden from all but close family members.

This pandemic induced restrictions on lives plus (with the young) vicious social media can create a toxic storm.

Distraught families are left to grieve forever wondering ‘could I have done more?’. But could they? In reality if a person is determined I’m of the opinion they will do it. Yes, a crisis can be averted once or maybe twice. But if the red flags are there, the suicide will take place at one crisis point. I remember working with a GP many years ago. He said that very sadly interventions can only go so far. Eventually determination wins out.
??

BlueBelle

Unfortunately most people who want to commit suicide will tell you they are ok even if asked twice or three times

Sadly I agree with BlueBelle.

Thank you for your replies.

hollysteers I think many people will identify with your response of I’m okay but not great. Low spirits and lack of motivation seem to be prevalent at the moment, but most of us will muddle through without slipping into depression or experiencing suicidal thoughts.

BlueBelle the important thing is to ask the question and give someone contemplating death by suicide the opportunity to open up if they’re able to.

nanna8 during lockdown we’ve been supporting the mentally ill relative of a mental health nurse who works on a psychiatric ward in another county. The nurse is herself just about scraping by and her own mental health is extremely fragile. Fortunately her hospital is providing on site counselling for staff and she’s receiving regular help, but she acknowledges that she had to do mental somersaults before she could admit she needed it.

Samaritans are available to listen 24 hours a day and you don’t need to be contemplating suicide to call them. 116 123

Locally there may be a 24 hour hub that offers telephone or even face-to-face support., most councils have a webpage detailing where help can be found. Our own community has a chat line for people who are simply either lonely or who prefer to share how they’re feeling anonymously.