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"Tradition is just peer pressure by dead people" ?

(142 Posts)
Mamissimo Thu 25-Mar-21 11:30:50

This caught my eye in The Times today and brought me up short. I've been mulling it......and I think I agree...do you?

Peasblossom Thu 25-Mar-21 20:26:23

I couldn’t be a real Morris dancer because I was female?

Peasblossom Thu 25-Mar-21 20:24:24

Worthy of another thread Gannygangan.

My family would agree that BAME is a useless definition except as “people who suffer discrimination because of the prejudices of others”

The same applies to LGBTQ+

Nanna58 Thu 25-Mar-21 20:16:02

God I am sick of people rubbishing British Tradition because it is handed down from ‘ dead white males’ . This same people wouldn’t trash traditions from other cultures, that wouldn’t be woke! British culture from centuries ago would be from white men - things are changing, and for the good , but please , racism goes both ways, let’s not disregard traditions just because they reflect a less diverse age

GrannyGravy13 Thu 25-Mar-21 20:08:50

JaneJudge

all the old boy school stuff, committees, clubs
people in Bentleys with chains and some fur parking in disabled spaces at functions for people with disabilities, then they eat all the buffet

What’s wrong with Bentleys? Good, solid and UK made car.

Gannygangan Thu 25-Mar-21 20:04:26

Just throwing something else out here

BAME is an acronym which doesn't sit well with the people it's describing.

My son in law loathes it.

And I've read a few articles where people are explaining why it's not appreciated

A couple of days ago I was watching Jeremy Vine and the brilliant Nana Akua was saying how much she hated it as well.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53194376

Callistemon Thu 25-Mar-21 20:03:55

Peasblossom

Think it started with Gagajo saying tradition was a white, privileged male thing.

I blame Morris dancers

M0nica Thu 25-Mar-21 20:01:48

Tradition is not just one monolithic 'thing'. It needs definition.

As for saying they are made by dead white men, that certainly fits with the current Zeitgeist, but how far that is true, I am not sure. Of course it is possible to name traditions male in origin, but there have in time and still are traditions around childbirth, child rearing, menstruation and the menopause - and old wive's tales to go with them, which are entirely female in origin.

I read somewhere that a traditon is simply somthing your parents did regularly. Many of the traditions people respect are frequently only 2 generations old and disappear with a third.

The one thing I have learnt in life is that every thing is mutable and that particularly applies to traditions. This years immutable tradition is out with the rubbish next year and completely forgotten the following year.

We also back invent traditions. Take the Tradtional English breakfast. Where did that come from? Go into into a hotel and the TEB will include eggs, bacon, sausages, the option of a regional delicacy(black pudding), tomatoes, hash potatoes, mushrooms, baked beans and half a dozen other ingredients.

Look back to see what an English breakfast was 50 years ago, in a home, or hotel. It was an egg, piece of meat (bacon, sausage, black pud or something else) but one only, and a slice of fried bread. occasionally a kipper, toast and marlelade and a cup of tea. In poorer families it was likely to be just fried bread plus egg or bacon.

Certainly not the cornucopia we are offered now and no fruit juice, cereal, breakfast breads and all the other thingse.

Traditions are not something to get hung up on.Traditions are like dogs, not just for Christmas, but most traditions probably last less than 20 years. Slightly longer than the dog.

JaneJudge Thu 25-Mar-21 20:01:39

all the old boy school stuff, committees, clubs
people in Bentleys with chains and some fur parking in disabled spaces at functions for people with disabilities, then they eat all the buffet

JaneJudge Thu 25-Mar-21 20:00:07

I don't like those gold medal chains things with cloaks

Doodledog Thu 25-Mar-21 19:52:01

Peasblossom

I hope it didn’t come over that I thought Punjabi was a race? I quoting Nannys term back to her?

Ah, I did wonder grin.

Peasblossom Thu 25-Mar-21 19:50:29

Think it started with Gagajo saying tradition was a white, privileged male thing.

Tangerine Thu 25-Mar-21 19:48:48

Coming back to the original subject of the thread, I think some traditions are good and some should be dropped. Simple as that.

The trouble is that people will not all agree on what is a good tradition and what is a bad one.

Peasblossom Thu 25-Mar-21 19:48:43

I hope it didn’t come over that I thought Punjabi was a race? I quoting Nannys term back to her?

Doodledog Thu 25-Mar-21 19:41:21

Punjabi isn't a race either.

It isn't too difficult to see where someone who mistakes all people of colour as Pakistani has got it from - there is a word that is still used to describe pretty much anyone with a brown skin that assumes the same. Pretty shocking really.

How has this thread got here from a question about tradition?

Peasblossom Thu 25-Mar-21 19:31:01

Southall is not a town or a city, anymore than Wimbledon is a separate town or city. It’s London.

And the “race” you’re looking for is Punjabi.

To call them Pakistani is a bit like saying I’m French. Quite close on the map and the same colour?

Peasblossom Thu 25-Mar-21 18:35:14

No, no, be fair 3nanny6, you said Pakistani not BAME.

That was what I pulled you up on, though you have since changed it.

But you can’t blame me for commenting on what you originally said.

JaneJudge Thu 25-Mar-21 18:34:57

1947 sorry, my brain is tired

JaneJudge Thu 25-Mar-21 18:34:28

I know how Pakistan was formed, Gagajo mentioned it earlier, about how white privileged people rewrite history
1917 and the partition

3nanny6 Thu 25-Mar-21 18:27:46

I can't even be bothered using energy to go there with you people are just so bloody patronizing.

Also I say again Peasblossom asked me for just one town/city
in U K that is more populated by B.A.M .E than white people.
She told me just quit because there isn't one.
I have posted that city and I am correct it seems some people want to call you a racist when they are proved wrong.
My background proves what I am and I do not need to prove anything to any of you.

suziewoozie Thu 25-Mar-21 18:18:12

3nanny6

Suziewoozie perhaps MaizieD and even you Gagajo are you now trying to point a finger of racism at me?

Perhaps not all cities have as many Pakistani families as I said so I will hold my hands up to that.

Suziewoozie in regard of getting my terminology wrong then just carry on.
Many people got their terminology wrong to my children and used words I will not even say on here.
I just point out my terminology for my children and it is mixed heritage/mixed race.
Also in regard of knowing about Pakistan I think I know enough thanks, I have now got a Pakistani daughter in law and she will be giving me a grand-child soon of which I could not be more pleased .
Please stop being so patronizing I have lived with bi-racial relationship for 40 years.

It’s very difficult to have a conversation with someone about race and ethnicity if they can’t use the word ‘race’ correctly.

3nanny6 Thu 25-Mar-21 18:15:00

Suziewoozie perhaps MaizieD and even you Gagajo are you now trying to point a finger of racism at me?

Perhaps not all cities have as many Pakistani families as I said so I will hold my hands up to that.

Suziewoozie in regard of getting my terminology wrong then just carry on.
Many people got their terminology wrong to my children and used words I will not even say on here.
I just point out my terminology for my children and it is mixed heritage/mixed race.
Also in regard of knowing about Pakistan I think I know enough thanks, I have now got a Pakistani daughter in law and she will be giving me a grand-child soon of which I could not be more pleased .
Please stop being so patronizing I have lived with bi-racial relationship for 40 years.

suziewoozie Thu 25-Mar-21 17:49:50

Is white a ‘race’? Is Pakistani a ‘race’ ? 3nanny if you can’t even get your terminology correct, it does make it difficult to discuss issues with you. Do you even know when Pakistan was formed?

GagaJo Thu 25-Mar-21 17:44:28

Agree MaizieD. I live in a Northern city. I know of one Asian family that live within a 2 or 3 mile radius of me (I am not a census taker, obviously, but...).

GagaJo Thu 25-Mar-21 17:43:09

*DO

GagaJo Thu 25-Mar-21 17:42:48

Crikey I didn't realise I'd sneezed in the pepper pot when I started this thread....or is it traditional to have a Gransnet Hooley at least once a week if there's an R in the month?

We TOO like a set to, on GN. It is one of the things we do well. ? ? ? ? ?