"Tradition is just peer pressure by dead people" ?

Gannygangan

I meant to say that the children had their surname as a middle name. Makes a big difference to context! I need to proof read before I post

I'm still confused -
so, if your husband's name was John Smith, his family expected your child to be called Mary Smith Smith, or what?

Oh dear - I’m just getting more muddled. Tradition or culture or both? Some traditions are put into legislation - what are they then? Some traditions are perceived positively and others negatively - it’s complicated. How long does something have to happened for to become a tradition? Not sure I’m upto this ?

suziewoozie

GG I honestly don’t think we can say that traditions on the whole are a good thing. Far too sweeping. What would make sense is discussing specific traditions.

Christmas Pudding recipe which has been handed down through my paternal Gran’s family since mid 1800’s, has now been handed on to my DIL’s and DD.

I think each generation makes new traditions for their family, along with taking up some of the handed down traditions from both sides equalling their family traditions

We have an Easter tradition which to some would seem ridiculous but we are now on the fourth generation, and it is much loved.

FGM is a different matter all together as is circumcision.

Some traditions worldwide need to be addressed and made illegal and FGM still happens because of peer pressure.

Not all traditions are good nor should they be carried forward into the future. It was traditional to crucify Christians, burn people at the stake, kill witches etc but the word tradition covers such a broad spectrum of activities it is impossible to state that they are all wrong.

Without getting into an argument can I respectfully ask you Gagajo what your ethnicity/culture is? I often read your posts
and it is clear you are well educated and it comes across that you are always on the side of diverse cultures once again I am not critical of that.
I saw your post of 11.44 am and maybe expressing that all traditions have been made by dead white men was a bit much.
In another post you said that White people are the dominant social group worldwide.
I would disagree totally with that and say most certainly
that the white race is greatly out numbered now by the
Pakistani race and in every town /city across Britain the
contingency of Pakistani/culture is no longer a minority
and although people say they are the minority they are not
Also as a people they have their own traditions which they pass down generation to generation and that is the way they live.

GG I honestly don’t think we can say that traditions on the whole are a good thing. Far too sweeping. What would make sense is discussing specific traditions.

What traditions are we talking about? Not family traditions where everyone is very much alive, surely. I can apply the OP to the Queen who early in her reign was very much pressured by the QM and the politicians of the day to model her reign on the traditions of her father and grandfather. Traditions that have been moderated over time, eg Royal divorces. However, obviously the dead people had no say in that so I have to say that I don’t agree.

Copied and pasted.

While assumptions and stereotypes about white people do exist, this is considered racial prejudice, not racism. Racial prejudice refers to a set of discriminatory or derogatory attitudes based on assumptions derived from perceptions about race and/or skin colour. Thus, racial prejudice can indeed be directed at white people (e.g., “White people can’t dance”) but is not considered racism because of the systemic relationship to power. When backed with power, prejudice results in acts of discrimination and oppression against groups or individuals.

PippaZ traditions are ethnic passed down from generation to generation, whether they be white male traditions or any other traditions in any Country/Race/Religion throughout the wide World.

It is just blatantly wrong to say that the majority of traditions emanate from white males.

I for one think tradition on the whole is a good thing, especially family traditions it brings about family unity and keeps our dead loved ones alive in our hearts and minds.

FGM is a different matter all together as is circumcision.

Sorry,that was supposed to read Indians,tut.

People are free to follow tradition or not as Oldwoman said. Most cultures have their traditions some good some not so.
I agree with Callistemon ^we lose so much of value if we lose traditions including old languages, traditional medicines, race memories^

I have a love of Native Idians.
And tradition is whatever someone wants it to be,i don`t think the dead will be overly bothered myself.

I'm not sure about all traditions being peer pressure by dead people. There are a lot of posts on GN about things like sending cards, which are, to me, 'traditions' started by commercial companies and continued because of emotional blackmail.

Some traditions, such as eating turkey at Christmas, are made to be adapted to differing likes and dislikes, so people will make nut roasts, order in curry or have beef if they prefer, but the family dinner tradition generally remains because people want to do it. Crackers, hats and whether or not to watch The Queen are all adapted to individual families within the overall pick and mix of Christmas 'traditions'.

The Changing of the Guard, or the State Opening Of Parliament, and similar State traditions, on the other hand, are absolutely remnants of an old world order with white men at the top.

GagaJo

And let us be clear. White people are the dominant social group, world wide. Racism is a form of discrimination, based on skin colour. You cannot be racist against a dominant, powerful group.

It is possible to discriminate against white people. But that isn't racism.

Sorry GagaJo - can you clarify for me:

If I say all black people are evil - that is racism
If I say all white people are evil - that isn't racism?

Each statement is surely judging a whole group on the colour of their skin so either both are racism or both are discrimination.

Most British traditions have come from the ruling class. Unless you are referring to Elizabeth 1st or 2nd, the ruling class has always been white men.

NOT inaccurate. Just not your cup of tea. Quite different.

Your post was inaccurate Gagajo usually, those people are dead white men however you dress it up.

Native Americans is of course the correct address and I yet again apologise, I have no problem admitting when I have got something wrong.

GrannyGravy13

PippaZ I actually think rubbishing ethnic traditions by assuming that the majority of handed down traditions come from White Males is an extremely disrespectful assertion made by Gagajo

Why do your twist what people say? I didn't mention ethnic traditions; I don't think they had been mention at all when I posted.

Obviously, distortion of what other people's say is a tradition on these boards - passed on through families presumably when members can't have their own way. It's dysfunctional and stops it being a discussion that can actually make any progress. I expect that's the point of trashing the argument in the first place. It's all about "I can't have my way so I will silence you".

Traditions are frequently used as an excuse to keep things as they are for a variety of sometimes nefarious purposes. FGM is a tradition which is rooted in men wanting to control women’s sexual behaviour by removing the possibility of sexual pleasure. But pace eggs and simnel cakes are a tradition. I think the word is to broad really to have a proper discussion about.

GagaJo

Well GG13, if you want to talk about respect, they haven't been called the offensive phrase you used r*d In***n for about 40 years. The ethnic group you are referring to are native Americans.

And OBVIOUSLY I am talking about British culture. The history we follow, the historical texts we read and that our culture is based on IS mostly about dead white, mostly upper class men. We live in a patriarchy. History has been written by those in the ruling classes. They create the traditions.

Your first rule REALLY ought to be, try not to be racist on a public forum.

As the vast majority of British people were white then it is unsurprising the traditions were set by white men, women at the time being second class citizens.

Things have now, thankfully, changed, women and other cultures are now creating new things which will become traditions. Everyone is free to follow, or not, any tradition they chose.

Traditions are evident all over the world.

And I think are something to be treasured and not lost or trampled over.

We lose so much of value if we lose traditions, including old languages, traditional medicines, race memories.

By the way, good thread, Mamissimo.

Sorry it has derailed already.

Overall I don't agree with Mamissimo or GagaJo. For the most part I think traditions are kept because they bring a sense of continuity and comfort. Of course some traditions should be abandoned or quietly left to fade, and doesn't every family create their own new traditions? For example we took parts from my husband's Christmas traditions and blended them with my family traditions and then added in a few of our own over the years.
I assume you're referring to traditions in the UK GagaJo when you mention dead white men, as I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have had much influence in countries like China and Japan, where I think tradition may be even more rigid than here.

And let us be clear. White people are the dominant social group, world wide. Racism is a form of discrimination, based on skin colour. You cannot be racist against a dominant, powerful group.

It is possible to discriminate against white people. But that isn't racism.

GrannyGravy13

Yes in hindsight awarding Gagajo a ? was wrong and I apologise.

Her post is still in my opinion bordering on racism, which is not acceptable.

In what way is it boarding on racism GrannyGravy13? Perhaps you would like to explain that to GNHQ - do let me know; I'm happy to report the post for you. On the other hand if you can support what you have said then, of course, it would not be acceptable.

Well GG13, if you want to talk about respect, they haven't been called the offensive phrase you used r*d In***n for about 40 years. The ethnic group you are referring to are native Americans.

And OBVIOUSLY I am talking about British culture. The history we follow, the historical texts we read and that our culture is based on IS mostly about dead white, mostly upper class men. We live in a patriarchy. History has been written by those in the ruling classes. They create the traditions.

Your first rule REALLY ought to be, try not to be racist on a public forum.