Draconian sick leave policies

Doodledog

Do you think that expecting people to call in (absolutely not from a hospital bed), and to speak to someone if they are off on three separate instances a year are draconian rules?

I wouldn't argue for draconian rules about anything - far from it - but I worked with someone who played the system to her advantage, and it was incredibly stressful for everyone else in the team.

But surely that person should have been dealt with on an individual basis. Why should HR policies be dragged down to the most basic and inhumane level because a tiny minority can't be trusted?

Doodledog

I don't think those policies are particularly draconian.

The 'three strikes' policy is probably just to touch base with HR to make sure that there is nothing the matter, or whether the company can do anything to help. There is not usually a reason why someone would be off sick three times in one year, unless they have an underlying condition, in which case there might be something that occupational health can help with.

Needing to speak to someone if your manager is not there is also just sensible, as someone will need to organise cover. Usually email will be ok, so long as there is a secretary or someone able to pass on the message and so long as their email is monitored if they are unavailable themselves. That way, if the person calling in has had a sleepless night, they can catch up without having to set the alarm to call in.

Wanting to speak to the absentee isn't draconian either, IMO, so that the manager can ask about when they are likely to return, and if they have something that might be contagious. It is silly to expect someone to call from a hospital bed, though. I'm sure a relative could make the call and a doctor's note would be enough to prove that the call was genuine.

I am a firm believer that everyone should be paid when they are ill, but also that skiving should be made as difficult as possible. People staying off work for next to nothing cost money and are a massive pain in the proverbial for those who have to pick up their slack.

But how do you feel about sick employees having to ring one person after another until they find a manager at their desk, or someone who was admitted to hospital being in breach of sick leave policies because their husband or mother rang to explain the situation rather than the patient in A&E. Do you really think that is reasonable?

Do you think that expecting people to call in (absolutely not from a hospital bed), and to speak to someone if they are off on three separate instances a year are draconian rules?

I wouldn't argue for draconian rules about anything - far from it - but I worked with someone who played the system to her advantage, and it was incredibly stressful for everyone else in the team.

When DD had her road accident, I spent most of the night trying to get hold of a manager (it was a 24/7 operation) to tell them that she wouldn't be in for the 6.00am shift.

I do think if managers are that demanding, they should have a 24/7 phone number where a message can be left.

I have seen no evidence that draconian sick rules reduce absence rates. To reduce absence rates you need good manangement and a good HR department.

Draconian rules on any aspect of work, just cause rapid staff turnover and that really does cost money.

I don't think those policies are particularly draconian.

The 'three strikes' policy is probably just to touch base with HR to make sure that there is nothing the matter, or whether the company can do anything to help. There is not usually a reason why someone would be off sick three times in one year, unless they have an underlying condition, in which case there might be something that occupational health can help with.

Needing to speak to someone if your manager is not there is also just sensible, as someone will need to organise cover. Usually email will be ok, so long as there is a secretary or someone able to pass on the message and so long as their email is monitored if they are unavailable themselves. That way, if the person calling in has had a sleepless night, they can catch up without having to set the alarm to call in.

Wanting to speak to the absentee isn't draconian either, IMO, so that the manager can ask about when they are likely to return, and if they have something that might be contagious. It is silly to expect someone to call from a hospital bed, though. I'm sure a relative could make the call and a doctor's note would be enough to prove that the call was genuine.

I am a firm believer that everyone should be paid when they are ill, but also that skiving should be made as difficult as possible. People staying off work for next to nothing cost money and are a massive pain in the proverbial for those who have to pick up their slack.

When I worked in retail for a short time it was mandatory to phone your manager or someone in authority first thing in the morning if you were not going to work so that they could try to get a replacement. A text was acceptable if you couldn't get an answer - don't know what was in place before mobile phones.

I think they would have understood that if you were admitted to hospital you couldn't ring in, and would have accepted a call from a relative though, regardless of what the policy said. The back to work interview rarely took place while I was there, just your manager checking that you were okay. Don't know if that was written up afterwards.

Just like the NHS!!

I worked in the NHS and we had the return to work interview policy but it was implemented sensibly. The "interview" was making sure that the manager caught up with the person to make sure that they actually were ok because people WOULD rush back to work with bugs and stomach upsets not thinking that they would be sharing them around...and also if the person was frequently taking a day here or there, to check that it wasn't a symptom of a bigger problem which might be stress related. Most often it was a quick "are you ok?"

In schools, the introduction of the Bradford Scale in my school had a mixed reception. Our Headteacher followed it to the letter, including the requirement to give any employee returning after absence a back to work interview, even after one day!

That sounds like NHS policies - one reason I am so happy to be retired!

Most of those practices would qualify as unreasonable and could be used to justify a claim for unfair dismissal or being forced out of your job against your will.

If I had conditions like that in my work contract, I would be speaking to my union about it and seeking advice from Citizen's Advice.