harry and megan

I cannot feel sorry for him-Harry- not having a clearly defined role as he has had plenty of time to figure things out and he has plenty of people to help him make plans or rather he did.

I noticed that the new book cover for Finding Freedom includes a subtitle of the "Making of a Modern Royal Family" I thought this was not allowed. They LEFT the Royal Family and were told not to cash in on being Royal weren't they?

Harry should probably have stayed in the army where he had a role and felt useful. He could have been a bit like the York girls maybe, working but doing the odd royal duty, or supporting some charities, particularly those to do with the forces. A young man in his twenties, now thirties, needs a role in life in my opinion. The Invictus Games is brilliant, but probably not enough. He was unlikely to ever be king, so probably needed his own role. Most people do. Harry’s not any different in that respect. I don’t think Netflix and so on will give him the role he needs. Although I don’t condone what he’s done, I’m feel a bit sorry for him in that he hasn’t got a clearly defined role. Maybe the DofW was the same once he had abdicated.

suziewoozie

Callistemon

That confirms the view that some hold I think. That he was well-meaning but weak and married a strong, dominant woman. He was anxious that she should be accepted and received with the status he thought she deserved and which had not happened here.
The Nazi regime took advantage of that and welcomed them both, which he welcomed naively without realising the full implications of his actions.

??? Thick and entitled more like - thought he knew best. Really just wanted to go to give WS a sort of ‘state’ visit. Nice how his apologists forgive his utter self centredness and stupidity even though it meant him giving a seal of approval to what was already well known to be an evil regime. Or do some of you think Hitler only started bring nasty to Jewish people in 1939?

Exactly what I said but different phrases.
How strange that your post sounds as if you disagree with me:

He was anxious that she should be accepted and received with the status he thought she deserved and which had not happened here.
Really just wanted to go to give WS a sort of ‘state’ visit. Nice how his apologists forgive his utter self centredness and stupidity even

Yes, not that bright but weak too. Wallis was a far stronger personality than him.

The royal princes had a domineering father which set the pattern for a trait of submissiveness.
Interesting that marriages to strong women steered his and his brother's paths in life.

I think most people know quite a lot about the rise of Hitler and the dangers he presented.

maddyone I do understand why some posters might think Hitler was a socialist and did good things for the German people in providing jobs, and getting that terrible inflation down
I don't think any posters on Gransnet think Hitler was a good socialist, although undoubtedly some people did at the time.

At the risk of being branded a Harry Supporter in all future threads..

On one hand we have a weak man who gave up all his responsibilities and landed his brother (a blood relative) in a role he was unsuited for, probably hastening his death. A man who thought his female (blood) relatives were old hags and who thought Hitler was on the right track. A man who is famed for his concern for poorer people but doesn't seem to have done anything about it despite his wealth and power.

On the other, we have a serving soldier who was by all accounts good at it and had to give it up when his cover was blown. One who started the Invictus Games and appears for charities today. One who is trying to protect his wife and children in the face of the harshest criticism from people who have never met him, but who think he's upset our own dear Queen.

I'll choose Prince Harry please.

I've made a rod for my own back, haven't I?

suzie thank you, I’m glad you’ve said that, because I began to think I must be wrong. I admitted I don’t know much about the DofW but I do know about Nazi Germany. I used the term ‘cosying up’ which was picked up on, and I started to think I had used the wrong term, but I probably didn’t. I do understand why some posters might think Hitler was a socialist and did good things for the German people in providing jobs, and getting that terrible inflation down, but at the very same time, the Jewish people were being persecuted, and deprived of their livelihoods, and citizenship. The euthanasia programme didn’t start until 1939 ( I had thought it started earlier, but not so) and finished in 1941, and so we can conclude that it was expressly the Jewish people who were so terribly persecuted from 1933. This was known about, but other countries, including Britain, declined to offer more immigration to the Jews who were trying to escape Germany and Austria.

Will you reply to my question ? Has any of your loved family
members spoken publicly about private family affairs, not
difficult, a yes or no, thank you

No annie I damn well won’t - it’s NOYB and utterly irrelevant anyway to the points in question.

maddy I was (badly ) trying to make the point that when D of W went to cuddle up to Adolf, it was well known what was happening to Jewish people and D of W had no damn right to go on that visit - he was just an abdicated king. Yet some posters tried to whitewash him by saying he was trying to help. He was an utter disgrace and to try and put him in a positive light vis a vis PH because he never publicly spoke out against the RF is just ludicrous.

Anniebach
Harry is the only the member of the royal family to publicly criticise his blood family, the Duke of Windsor didn’t.
And here’s your comparison - it’s rather scraping the bottom of the barrel isn’t it to bring a Hitler loving self centred fool in as a comparator to show up the evils of PH ?

No suzziewoozie no barrel scraping, just comparing two men who chose to leave their blood family and what they did to their blood family after they left.

Will you reply to my question ? Has any of your loved family
members spoken publicly about private family affairs, not
difficult, a yes or no, thank you

....do some of you think Hitler only started being nasty to Jewish people in 1939.

Well I don’t know what others think, but I am most certainly very well aware of the fact that Hitler was ‘nasty’ to Jewish people from 1933, when he was made Chancellor, and indeed from well before that in his speeches. I realise that Hitler was able to pull Germany out of the terrible recession and unemployment that it was suffering, but he did this by dispossessing Jewish people of their incomes, property, rights, and citizenship, and by turning the economy in Germany into a war machine. He was preparing for war from 1933 and and in building tanks, arms, and roads, he was able to ensure full employment, so long as you weren’t Jewish. He encouraged Jewish emigration at first, but later clamped down on this, and later still, in 1941 at the Wannsee conference, after Jews had been suffering terrible persecution for some years, the Final Solution was conceived, which resulted in the deaths of some six million Jews. The killing of Jewish people had already started in various eastern countries that had been conquered, via bullets rather than gas chambers, and then the idea of mass killings in gas chambers was conceived and enacted in Poland, as Hitler didn’t want gas chambers operating in Germany, although he was happy for concentration camps to be in Germany, and indeed the first concentration camp was established near Munich, and named Dachau, in 1933.
So yes, I am aware that Hitler was plotting against the Jews for many years, and in particular, following him being made Chancellor in 1933. In fact, the burning of books by Jewish authors, or others considered subversive, started in 1933. I have visited the spot in Berlin where the books were burned.

Ellianne

This is what royal family threads are made of. I am learning something new here, thanks.
Eventually as time moves on everything becomes history, just that.
I still think we can be angry with any one of them for the bad way they behaved, however great or small the upset they caused.

I think a bit more nuance might be order ???

vegansrock

Members of the RF don’t have to pass an IQ test to become royals do they - so it’s not surprising many of them aren’t the sharpest tools in the box .

Which is why in a nutshell we shouldn’t have a RF

Anniebach

Harry is the only the member of the royal family to publicly criticise his blood family, the Duke of Windsor didn’t.

And here’s your comparison - it’s rather scraping the bottom of the barrel isn’t it to bring a Hitler loving self centred fool in as a comparator to show up the evils of PH ?

suziewoozie Choose ? One with connections to Hitler, one who betrayed his blood family , both not worth time of day .

May I ask you ? Have you experienced a loved family member
publicly speaking of personal family matters ?

Members of the RF don’t have to pass an IQ test to become royals do they - so it’s not surprising many of them aren’t the sharpest tools in the box .

This is what royal family threads are made of. I am learning something new here, thanks.
Eventually as time moves on everything becomes history, just that.
I still think we can be angry with any one of them for the bad way they behaved, however great or small the upset they caused.

Anniebach

A weak man married to a dominant woman, she was treated like royalty in Germany

Do you still maintain he was a much better person than PH or that there’s nothing to choose between them?

A weak man married to a dominant woman, she was treated like royalty in Germany

Callistemon

That confirms the view that some hold I think. That he was well-meaning but weak and married a strong, dominant woman. He was anxious that she should be accepted and received with the status he thought she deserved and which had not happened here.
The Nazi regime took advantage of that and welcomed them both, which he welcomed naively without realising the full implications of his actions.

??? Thick and entitled more like - thought he knew best. Really just wanted to go to give WS a sort of ‘state’ visit. Nice how his apologists forgive his utter self centredness and stupidity even though it meant him giving a seal of approval to what was already well known to be an evil regime. Or do some of you think Hitler only started bring nasty to Jewish people in 1939?

Agree Callistemon ,

That confirms the view that some hold I think. That he was well-meaning but weak and married a strong, dominant woman. He was anxious that she should be accepted and received with the status he thought she deserved and which had not happened here.
The Nazi regime took advantage of that and welcomed them both, which he welcomed naively without realising the full implications of his actions.

Lucca

Thanks SW.

Why is it Lucca that people who are so anti- MM and PH don’t want people who post facts to contribute to these threads. Beats me ???

The D of Windsor was only typical of his class and of many government members- people like the Cliveden set. If you are interested (it is a commuist party leaflet but fascinating) mrc.epexio.com/records/MSP/6/11

Thanks SW.

Here’s some facts

Duke and Duchess of Windsor's 1937 tour of Germany
Political crisis of 1937
Edward, Duke of Windsor, and Wallis, Duchess of Windsor, visited Nazi Germany in October 1937. Edward had abdicated the British throne in December 1936, and his brother George VI had become king. Edward had been given the title Duke of Windsor and married Wallis Simpson in June 1937. He appeared to have been sympathetic to Germany in this period and, that September, announced his intention to travel privately to Germany to tour factories. His interests, officially into researching the social and economic conditions of the working classes, were against the backdrop of looming war in Europe. The Duke's supporters saw him as a potential peacemaker between Britain and Germany, but the UK Government refused to sanction such a role and was against the tour, suspecting that the Nazis would use the Duke's presence for propaganda. Windsor was keen that his wife—who had been rejected by the British establishment—experience a state visit as his consort. He promised the government to keep a low profile; the tour went ahead between 12 and 23 October 1937.

Contemporary photograph of Hitler kissing the Duchess's hand
The Duke and Duchess of Windsor meeting Adolf Hitler. Hitler treated the Duchess with full royal deference.
The Duke and Duchess, who were officially invited to the country by the German Labour Front, were chaperoned for much of their visit by its leader, Robert Ley. The couple visited factories, many of which were producing materiel for the rearmament effort; the Duke inspected German troops. The Windsors were greeted by the British national anthem and Nazi salutes. They dined with high-ranking Nazis such as Joseph Goebbels, Hermann Göring, Joachim von Ribbentrop, and Albert Speer, as well as having tea with Hitler in Berchtesgaden. The Duke had a long private conversation with Hitler, but it is uncertain what they discussed as the minutes of their meeting were lost in the war. The Duchess took afternoon tea with Hitler's deputy, Rudolf Hess. Hitler was sympathetic to the Windsors and treated the Duchess like royalty.

The UK Government was unable to affect the course of events and forbade its diplomatic staff in Germany from having any high-level interaction with the Duke and Duchess. British popular opinion of the tour was muted, most viewing it as in poor taste and disruptive in the first year of George's reign. The tour of Germany was intended to have been followed by one of the United States, but Nazi repression of working-class activists in Germany led to a wave of disapproval for the Windsors in the American labour movement. This led to the US visit being cancelled. Modern historians tend to consider the 1937 tour as a reflection of both the Duke's lack of judgement and of his disregard for the advice he received.