Feeling sorry for men

An anecdote I've told before on here....

A former boss would swear like a trooper - the f-word mostly. If I was around when he was swearing he would apologise to me by name. So, I was singled out from the (mainly male) workforce as being uniquely unable to cope with hearing swearwords; maybe he thought I'd melt into a little puddle of shock and embarrassment.

He thought he was being polite. He wasn't. He was showing that he thought I was different to everybody else by dint of being female. If you feel you can't swear in front of me, don't swear in front of anybody.

This, IMO, is what happens with the compliments and door opening. You don't need to do it, I can manage without it. I don't get offended, I usually think the perpetrator is a dear old soul who hasn't quite moved with the times.

BTW - the swearing/apologising stopped when I used it back at him. That was fun.

A man sitting in a van told me he liked my coat the other day. I can't decide should I or my coat feel offended? (it is a rather gorgeous velvet one).
I feel sorry for men who are doing their best to behave. I fear that lots of men are failing to go into certain fields, such as early years education because they are afraid to have contact with young children.

"I suspect he wouldn't tell a man his muscles were developing nicely, but would comment on how much more weight the man could lift etc."

That might depend on the goal the client had set or what he had said to the trainer. If one of his goals was to develop his muscles or muscle definition, I think he might tell a man his muscles are developing nicely.

GagaJo

Until other men (the good ones) call out the bad ones for poor attitudes etc, I don't have sympathy with them.

I would confront anyone that was racist, homophobic. Men need to do this as standard with sexist/abusive men. WHEN that happens, things will start to change. When that happens, then I will feel for those being tarred by the same brush.

I actually see this happening now, with my sons friends.

I'm not saying there arnt huge problems with some men and how they view sex and treat women.
But it's silly to judge all by one stereotype.

We hate it when were treated in this way dont we?

PolarBear, I think that can depend on the relationship you have with the professional. I have a professional I've been seeing for years. He's given me a friendly and perfectly appropriate hug before. I was a bit surprised but I know he's okay and it was just friendly. I think our instincts can tell us a lot.

Polarbear
I have worked in situations where women have outnumbered men.
We used to employ young men straight out of school or university, sometimes just for the holidays, and we would tease them, and there would be lots of innuendo going on.
We were never unkind, we usually became very fond of them, but we certainly don’t behave like it now, I think it would seem very inappropriate.

vq, the tone the trainer uses to speak to your mother may be completely different from how he might speak to younger women.
We cannot know.

I suspect he wouldn't tell a man his muscles were developing nicely, but would comment on how much more weight the man could lift etc.

Sadly it's the times we live in and everyone has to be weary.There is also women who mis-interpret what was said!
My wonderful father was great with children,and they seemed drawn to him.He was a very hands on Dad,in a time where most fathers weren't.He did bath time,stories and bedtime and was also brilliant and calm at dealing with ailments and injuries.In fact I don't ever remember my DM doing any of the above things.In later years my Aunt said she ways thought that my DF was a pervert,for doing all the things above! Obviously I was furious! But he was aware back in the 70's that men have to be very wary when they're out and that you can't rush to help a child who has fallen over,for fear of being accused. Vampirequeen I get what your post is about,others have taken it out of context.We are in an age where we have to be careful of everything we say.I doubted myself when I was left briefly with a cousins baby,that I didn't really know,as soon as the parents popped out the baby did an explosive poop that I obviously immediately cleaned up,but I was then worried that they might deem it inappropriate! They were fine and very thankful but I amazed myself that I was even thinking like that.Once upon a time I wouldn't have! MOnica,your uncle sounds like a lovely man.I appreciated reading that and your end line......

But no one is saying you cant do that OP. What you cant do is control peoples reactions to it. Sone will like it and sone wont. People are entitled t to react in the way they want, within reason!

vamp. I paid for a sports massage therapist at one point for a bad back. I was going through a messy divorce and had lost a lot of weight. He told me straight I was too thin and I needed to get a grip and stop letting my ex ‘do this to me’. Now I can imagine some people would be offended but I wasn’t. It was a wake up call and I’ve never forgotten it. His comments on my body actually helped me. I guess each situation is different depending on life at that point?

I agree with your OP and your subsequent comments vampire.

I suppose I don't mind if someone says I look nice. I say thanks but it doesn't make me feel anything. It's just not that important to me. The only time I recall feeling a little annoyed by it was when it came from the husband of a friend who had a firm religious belief that women should wear skirts. He had to tell me how nice it was to see me in a skirt. I usually wore jeans. That was less being annoyed about the comment itself though and more about him pushing his idea of what a woman should be on me.

I don't get offended or read into things too easily but I think you can tell if something has an undertone you aren't comfortable with.

Galaxy

How will women know which ones are predators and which ones arent. There are currently reports of a well known TV show where its was commonplace for a man to lay his penis on the shoulder of his female cast. The issue is not people holding open doors.

By their actions.
Just because one man behaves in this way doesnt mean all would if they could.

You wouldn't group let's say Goldfish and sharks under the heading 'dangerous' and treat both accordingly would you?

I dont like any group being tarred with the same brush.

I should say that I also complimented a young man at the hairdressers the other day as his hair was lovely and he was sweeping up his own cuttings. I didn't know at the time he was the stylists grandson. He was dead chuffed and so was she.

vampirequeen your DH is too kind tell him not to touch other people’s washing with a barge pole!

FarNorth

Would the personal trainer have commented to a man that his muscles were developing nicely?
If not, why not?

Which muscles was he referring to, anyway?
Perhaps they were ones close to her breasts, for instance.
Or perhaps he said it in a tone he wouldn't use to a man.

We don't know enough about that incident to be sure it was an innocent comment but it's nice for the guy that he can get sympathy from some of his lady clients.

The man is a professional. He's said the same thing to my 85 year old mother. I doubt he fancies her and she certainly didn't take offence. She was glad to know her hard work was paying off. My mam works hard to keep her bones and muscles strong and it's nice to be told by someone who knows about these things that it's working.

As for being weird for telling someone that they have great hair or look nice then I'll keep being weird. I've never had a negative response from any woman and I've complimented women of all ages from young women in amazing goth boots to an old lady who looked brilliant in clothes/colours that really suited her. Each compliment has been met with a smile and a thank you....even a chat sometimes esp. if they're elderly. If I'm weird to brighten someone's day then I'll stay weird.

Polarbear2

So the compliment thing.. can I say you look well?? Can I not say anything nice to anyone? Genuinely both astonished and interested.

I think that would be okay. I wouldn't tell someone they look unwell though.

So the compliment thing.. can I say you look well?? Can I not say anything nice to anyone? Genuinely both astonished and interested.

If you treat someone as a sexual predator they will become a sexual predator . What??? You do understand what that message says to every person who has experienced sexual assault.

I hold the door for whoever is behind me, male or female.

"People will often act as you treat them. If you treat them with kindness they will act in a kind way if you treat them unkindly they will become unkind, if you treat them as a sexual predator then they will become a sexual predator."

You are kidding right? Treating someone like a predator surely says, "back off this person, they don't feel comfortable me with close." I don't think anyone becomes a predator because of how they are treated. They either are or they aren't.

If someone is unkind to me, I just back off and go where I am welcome. I don't be unkind back.

I'm another one who agrees with you, vampirequeen.
I've thought along these lines for ages now.

vampirequeen exactly! I agree with everything you said. My DH has said similar, not even sure about holding the door and such likes nowadays!

I suspect a personal trainer would tell a man his muscles were developing nicely. That's an observation and an encouragement in a professional role, surely? Then again, it can depend how it was said and whether there are other things that made the woman wary of this guy. In general, I wouldn't have a problem with a personal trainer making observations on how the training was working for me.

The comment about the muscles and physical trainer - I agree w/o more context, it doesnt raise red flags to me.

If they had been working hard on training, it was a compliment for the good job done