Teachers and Pupils must agree with LGBT ideology

What? Most feminists and lots of other people talk about gender as a social.concept . Whst in earth are you talking about. I am an ordinary person in the street, whatever that may be, and am perfectly able to understand the idea of gender as a social construct.

Lolo81

Describing the rights and struggle of LGBT people as “ideology” and making the comparison with a religious or political choice is in and of itself troubling. The politician is Poland who used this as an ultra conservative platform shows how adopting the word “ideology” can create a very divisive discourse.

Farnorth - the WHO describes gender as a social construct, and there are hundreds of academic papers examining the effects of gender as a social construct correlating with equality, health care access and violence (amongst others).

Social construct is a theory of knowledge, what it means to know, all rather unproven and another way of saying your personal ideological biases can be retained, revised or rejected,Whaaaat. If you are a Psychologist it may make sense, not to the ordinary man or woman in the street

Oh, the irony...

Not name calling - simple fact.

Thanks for the tolerant name-calling, Lolo81.

Personally I think tolerance and respect should be applied wherever possible. But again, that’s just my opinion.

I’ll never agree with discrimination - so I think I’ll just leave this thread now that I’ve made my point. And moving forward now that I know that OP is a bigot I’ll steer clear of future trans bashing ignorant threads.

I don't see why the issue is whether LGBTQ is either right or wrong. It's about respect for others. I shall be teaching my grandchildren that there are all sorts of different people in the world, some of them are gay and some feel they have been born in the wrong body. In the past these people were not accepted by others and even went to prison. But today we accept people are sometimes different and we never judge them or bully them. As long as they get that message strong and clear they will carry that through into secondary school, where sexual issues become much more significant.

Lolo81 these threads are about certain aspects of T, not anything about LGB.

'Tolerant" is not appropriate in every situation.

I was just thining that actually any decent teacher can pass on a questioning attitude without having to openly instruct children to ignore what they are being taught. I was taught history by such a teacher who always introduced history books with "Remember this is one person's view of the events," we got it.

????? Crossed posts?? One thing I do think is that it is good that the bullying and outright physical abuse of gay people is no longer considered acceptable. It was horrible.

Well in the past week alone you have started this thread and the one about the trans kids parents on this morning - so I’d say that’s a theme, no?

Look as I said you have every right to your opinion. Everyone does - not everyone is tolerant, unfortunately that’s society.

The private Lutheran school my grandchildren attend has just sent out a circular saying girls are allowed to wear trousers and boys can wear dresses so long as it is in the right uniform colours. A pretty conservative school.

Really? In what way?

Your post history would beg to differ......

I have no issue with the LGB community.
I have an issue with the acceptance of absolutely anyone who chooses, as being the opposite sex, without any form of diagnosis.

FarNorth

What was not responsible about telling pupils they should think for themselves rather than slavishly follow ideas being presented to them?
He also told them to be respectful to everyone.

For the third time I will explain that by referring to it as ideology is a form of othering. It is divisive.

His institution made it clear that they wanted inclusivity. In othering another section of society (regardless of religious faith) it is not being inclusive. I really don’t understand what’s difficult to comprehend here.

The attempt to compare religious or political choice with LGBTQ issues (which directly opposes the inclusivity demanded by the institution) is reckless and divisive at best, and downright discriminatory.

It is clear from many of your comments on this thread and other you have started that you have issues with the LGBTQ community and that is your right and your opinion. However, this sort of bias has no place in any classroom.

What was not responsible about telling pupils they should think for themselves rather than slavishly follow ideas being presented to them?
He also told them to be respectful to everyone.

Chestnut

trisher Crackpot ideas may be being peddled in schools, but the school if it is independent has a right to discipline any staff member who criticises those ideas.
So no action is required if the school is teaching 'crackpot ideas', and it's okay that a teacher be sacked if they encourage the pupils to decide for themselves whether they accept this.

Or, as a teaching professional with genuine concern that there are things being taught that are undermining the curriculum or equality that teacher goes to the governing body or local authority and raises their concerns (even as a whistle blower).

I’m struggling to see what “crackpot ideas” would be - creationism? That’s obviously a concern, but perhaps a more American issue. LGBTQ issues? There is framework around inclusivity for mainstream institutions to follow that are age appropriate.

My children attended Catholic schools, both primary and secondary included religious education of various religions. Although a Catholic school, they were taught to the modern curriculum - it was inclusive. They were not taught that gay people were bad, or sinners. Their education took priority in terms of academia and the “Catholic” aspects were more about the ethos of the school and they had the odd Mass for holidays of obligation. They were encouraged to be kind, respectful etc. So there is a way for schools to teach broad Christian beliefs whilst not undermining or condemning sections of society.

Based on the original article - the teacher did not use responsible language. He let his faith override his responsibility to the institution and his students. The institution has every right to ensure that the basic tenets of inclusivity are respected by all staff and take action of this is not adhered to.

trisher Crackpot ideas may be being peddled in schools, but the school if it is independent has a right to discipline any staff member who criticises those ideas.
So no action is required if the school is teaching 'crackpot ideas', and it's okay that a teacher be sacked if they encourage the pupils to decide for themselves whether they accept this.

Chestnut

trisher

If people are allowed to make remarks like this without being reprimanded what other sorts of crackpot ideas would thrive? If for example the pastor became a Creationist and told children to ignore lessons about evolution would that be OK?

I suspect there are all sorts of 'crackpot ideas' being peddled in some faith schools that we know very little about. Christianity is not the only faith that has issues with gender and sexuality. How do you propose to deal with them?

Personally I don't propose to deal with any of them I was simply pointing out if a school is teaching something and someone encourages the pupils to ignore that teaching it has be dealt with.
Crackpot ideas may be being peddled in schools, but the school if it is independent has a right to discipline any staff member who criticises those ideas.

trisher

It's an Independent school if the parents don't like it they can stop paying the fees.

Exactly. An independent school I worked at had a Headteacher who was rabidly anti-vegan. Vegan staff members were warned not to ever mention their dietry choice to their students. The Headteacher SAID it was to prevent the staff from pushing their ideology onto the students. Vegan staff were told to comply or leave.

trisher

If people are allowed to make remarks like this without being reprimanded what other sorts of crackpot ideas would thrive? If for example the pastor became a Creationist and told children to ignore lessons about evolution would that be OK?

I suspect there are all sorts of 'crackpot ideas' being peddled in some faith schools that we know very little about. Christianity is not the only faith that has issues with gender and sexuality. How do you propose to deal with them?

If people are allowed to make remarks like this without being reprimanded what other sorts of crackpot ideas would thrive? If for example the pastor became a Creationist and told children to ignore lessons about evolution would that be OK?

Farnorth - that is a reductive oversimplification of trans issues. I actually do agree to the extent that young people in particular should not have the ability to easily attain any surgery etc without appropriate counselling, support and guidance from professionals (which I think is lacking). However to lump it all together as there is no “requirement” for any individual to make changes is dismissive IMO.

To go back to the original article as I stated previously, the issue I found was in the dubbing of LGBTQ issues as an ideology. This is a vast area in society with many concerns, sexuality, gender, equality which are not comparable to the choice of a religion or political affiliation.

It’s valid to critically think and have opinions about specific issues in area of life, the issue for me comes when the labelling of certain sections of society is done in a way that undermines.

I certainly would not consider that me being a heterosexual person with a female gender as an ideology - it makes up part of my identity - so why would someone who is perhaps bi-sexual and gender neutral be considered any different? The reference to their gender presentation or sexuality being referred to as ideology is where my concern comes from and although there was mention of treating people with respect etc, the very fact that they are grouped and labelled as something “other” is not helpful IMO.

Everyone has a choice of religious affiliation - everyone has the right to freedom of speech. When in a position as an educator, there is a level of responsibility to society to ensure that the words spoken are done so responsibly - I don’t think the messaging from the teacher in the article was responsible.

Lolo81 indeed, a social construct.

Therefore not something that should require anyone, especially young people, to make changes to their bodies by medication or surgery.

Also, not something that should be used to replace the category of 'sex', as is happening now.

Dragonella what definition of 'gender' did you mean, and what evidence is there for it?