Parents of 4-year old transgender child - This Morning interview.

Franbern another friend of mine has a son who is gay. When he married another man he referred to himself as the wife and his partner as his husband. I don’t think this is unusual. The point I was making, however, is that being gay is not necessarily the same as being transgender and vice versa so assumptions should not be made at a young age. I know someone who has transgendered from male to female and is still undergoing all sorts of therapy and it has not been an easy process. It is a decision a person has to make for themselves when they fully understand what it is all about.

25Avalon

35 years ago a friend of mine had 2 girls. The eldest was a real girl but the youngest was a tomboy as the expression then went. The youngest was never happy wearing dresses or skirts, played football for a boys team, and her mum had to get special dispensation from the school for her to wear culottes instead of a skirt. When she grew up it was no surprise that she had a girl as her partner whom she subsequently became the husband of. Was she, however, transgender? I don’t think so and that is the problem. In the states a lot of parents would rather their child was transgender than gay or lesbian.

There is a lot of trauma in transgendering. It is probably best left under the child is older and in the meanwhile let them be treated just as themselves.

Avalon, if two women marry it is usual for them both to be Wives, and if two men marry it is usual for them both to be Husbands.
There is a big difference between being transgender and being gay. Indeed, it is not unusual for a person to be both!!!

Me too, 3nanny6.
It's all because of the weird ideas that some adults have.

To be honest I am completely worried about those items
FarNorth and did not know things like that existed, oh well you live and learn.

FarNorth

Useful item for girl children who identify as boys.

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I’m a bit worried about the blue one, FarNorth. I think they need thermal underwear!

Iam64: The dressing up gifts for the girls were gender specific
although they would be shopping with me and once in the shop if they seen the Disney dresses, fairy dresses, snow white dresses they would want them so they were actually making their own choices all I done was pay at the cash till.
The boy was younger and although I see him I have not taken him shopping as much , so his dressing up clothes were my choice. I am not overly worried that he has to be macho I suppose I just had ideas that he would wear clothes associated with male influences. I have a son myself and he
never wore his sisters clothes and most of my friends children were either female in choices or male but I expect children can all be different, Yes it's best to let sleeping dogs lie.

3nanny6, your dressing up gifts have been gender specific. In my experience young children dress up in whatever takes their fancy. It’s not until 5 or 6 that gender identity becomes a thing. How much of that is socially determined is a subject for debate.
It sounds as though you’re worried your grandson isn’t macho enough. You’re wise to let sleeping dogs lie

Useful item for girl children who identify as boys.

stitchbugstudio.com/product/bittybug/?fbclid=IwAR301Q3NQnye8PUzj6lk-KrO8IvrG9E7ged4FxxcZg46iKpH7re921bMqBk

Skirts and pants as option for everybody in uniforms

Very interesting article of skirts in history
www.bustle.com/p/the-history-of-men-skirts-58088

Aptera : That's a good post and yes I agree let the child use their imagination and see where the situation leads them as they can so easily grow out of the dressing up phase.
I have posted earlier on that my grandson began dressing up in mainly pink tops and frilly tutus all leftover from his two sisters who are slightly older and no longer bother with them. In the past I have bought the girls everything from the themed Disney dresses/snow white/frozen/Christmas angels even once found them some mermaid costumes. With the boy I have bought him Spiderman Buzz Lightyear, Batman,
Cowboy outfit and a lion outfit. He puts them on for five minutes and they are discarded and he will look for the tutu and a pink top he has been slow to start talking and he may have to have speech therapy so he has never made any verbal announcement he is a girl and actually he has never said he is a boy. He goes to nursery and they have to wear the uniform and he goes dressed as a boy. My daughter says nothing so I just let sleeping dogs lie.

Shelflife, some girls don’t want to wear trousers and there would be an immediate outcry about equality issues if they were forced to wear ‘boys’ clothes, even if they spend their free time in jeans.
Some schools suggest divided skirts as part if the uniform as a way round this.

I do agree that the best option is trousers for everyone. Girls are restricted by wearing skirts/ dresses. Not displaying underwear is important! I was thinking of the equality issue.
One of my many unhappy memories of senior school was having to play hockey in navy blue knickers outside!
Apart from the indignity it was freezing in the north of England in winter. The boys played football in shorts , our PE teacher wore a track suit! That experience still haunts me !!!!!

A school I am involved with just had an issue where the male staff challenged the discrepancy between guidelines for male and female clothing (for staff) they were successful.

Yes that's part of the problem. Not just uniforms, but toys etc. Its awful and so damaging for both boys and girls. I think in terms of trousers/skirts that trousers seem the sensible option for everyone but then I dont particularly want to impose that on the girls and boys who want to wear skirts.

Shelflife, I think that girls shouldn't have to be limited/restricted by wearing skirts. They are, at some point, inevitably, told to move and sit in a certain way to avoid showing their underwear. Again, it's ridiculous.

Galaxy

You should challenge them trisher most of the progressive schools are now realising saying certain sexes wear certain clothes is reliant on stereotypes. Why on earth would boys have to wear a tie and girls wouldnt, its nonsensical.

They're not my children Galaxy if they were I might. Many years ago my DS wore a skirt (kindly lent by a girl) to go into school. He was carpeted by the Head for it, she never informed me, possibly because she knew I would say boys should be allowed skirts just as girls were trousers. He told me about it ages afterwards.
I actually think there are more differences and gender specific uniform requirements now than there were years ago

If we agree that school uniform should be same for both genders why do we assume it is trousers of some sort, shouldn't children have the option of trousers or a skirt? It appears acceptable for all pupils to wear trousers but not skirts!?

Of course, uniform should be 'genderless' (and practical, non-iron, too please) e.g. polo shirt, shorts and tracksuit - then ideal to be passed down to the next child. Even my granddaughter's polo shirts are a special girls version, it's ridiculous!

You should challenge them trisher most of the progressive schools are now realising saying certain sexes wear certain clothes is reliant on stereotypes. Why on earth would boys have to wear a tie and girls wouldnt, its nonsensical.

I'm certain that a four year old has absolutely no innate sense of gender. It's all imposed by us adults, with our ridiculous obsession of treating and dressing them differently - to an extreme.

Even when we treat them (as we should) as just children, gender irrelevant - they are influenced by their little friends.

In the same way, my fourth child (a girl) suddenly, aged six, went on a diet, convinced that she was 'too fat'. Her teacher said it was popular with the other girls, influenced by their mothers.

Indeed unisex would be preferable. The point I was making is that teaching with relation to transgender issues that references clothing activities etc is not used. It was but then guidance was changed to avoid sexist stereotypes relating to clothes etc. I would challenge schools who for example decide that trousers are only for boys in the same way I am challenging the phrase dresses as a boy.

I absolutely agree that it would better if there was a unisex uniform, that doesn't seem to be happening though.

Trisher, out of interest, I’ve just done the same search re uniforms and found the distinction still exists even in primary schools.
I also found that even when school websites like that of my DGD list the uniform simply as school uniform, the uniform suppliers for those schools refer to ‘day uniform for boy’ and ‘day uniform for girl’ and the same for sports kit. Should schools be able to stipulate to uniform shops how their products are listed?

Indeed trisher a unisex uniform, in every school, would be a huge improvement in the situation.

The phrases you use around dressing and activities are not allowed to be used in schools because they are considered sexist. There has been recent guidance given to school to avoid this.
That's inteesting Galaxyhowever I still notice that my GCs school has a specific uniform for girls wich includes a cardigan and one for boys which includes a tie. Quite how that is managed without using the terms I've used I don't know and I've just checked a coupleof schools'websites ,on both the uniform is listed under "Girls" and "Boys"