harry and megan

Elegran You said
Telling your parents that you don't want to spend the rest of your life serving in their shop (which they and your grandparents and greatgrandparents before them have spent their own lives doing, building it up from a tiny corner newsagents into a thriving business with a good relationship with its many customers) must be as difficult as Harry telling his family that he wanted out.
You can go back as many generations as you like you won't find any tiny corner newsagents. You will find people who have used huge wealth to shelter themselves, sometimes living lives which most would disapprove of, and generally using their money and privilege to exploit others.
The RF as it exists has been created in two generations. The Queen mother who recognised the power of publicity and used it and the present Queen who followed her lead. It's bad enough that people have fallen for the idea that this is just an ordinary family, but asserting it somehow came from nothing and has always been the happy family business it tries desperately to cling to is just plain wrong. So worship was the only term I could think of. Perhaps I should've said bamboozled or conned.

Very ironic fanny.
to some extent i think Chelsy may have survived by lumping herself in with the other royal girls.
not saying she had to be like them, but strength in numbers. Chelsey didn't get their backs up.

Trisher As the one who used that metaphor/analogy, I must point out that I DON'T worship the RF. I don't worship anyone, not even God (If he exists, I don't believe he needs anyone to worship Him )

I will also point out that whether you approve of a Royal Family existing or not, or approve, or even are aware of, their ways of staying in prime position, it does take quite a lot of time and attention to maintain the Firm as the nursery for Heads of State. The level of that maintenance may not be the same, proportionately, as running a small business, but a family member deciding that they want out follows the same route, and equally has to make a case for not staying in the fold. They also, equally, could make their own way through life either with or without trashing their family for money and fame.

Chelsey repeatedly turned Harry down because she didn't want the publicity and scrutiny etc. She is a very private person.
How ironic is that?

fanny
Chelsey was very good friends with the other royal girls, so it could have worked better. Meghan did seem an outsider amongst them.
Now Harry is more the outsider.

tickingbird I didn't say that I agreed!
I said that it was interesting and thought provoking.
What I agree or disagree with is of very little interest or importance to anyone, especially in regards to the Royal Family of all things.

I don’t get the RF worship idea. I have no objection to the RF, but I reserve worship for a religious context.
However, ‘Who do you think you are?’ has shown that many have ancestors they would not be proud of today.
Many people are still achieving some of their riches by questionable means and I dare say their families are proud of them for being so provident.
But by all means compare it to the Mafia. You evidently have more expertise in that field than I do. What I’ve learned from watching films doesn’t quite fit with what you say. If someone tried to leave the Mafia, they were exterminated, not allowed to go and broadcast their woes to the world. Why not go further and compare it with the Triads.

tickingbird

Trisher Your last post perfectly illustrates my earlier points. You aren’t on this thread to comment on the OP. You are only here to trash the RF and will use any excuse to do so. So predictable.

Actually my comment was made because I have a family history of people building businesses (some of them failing) so I know how much hard work goes into them and also because as a historian I find the history of the RF. and the machinations which have been used to ensure they weren't rejected fascinating. And linking the two completely incensed me. By all means worship the RF if you wish to but please do it through an informed basis and realise that they have frequently managed to cling on by the skin of their teeth.

Fanny Cornforth You agree that the RF is akin to the mafia?? How strange.

Lucca I take your point but does it really matter? There are many lonely, bored people out there, along with many others with great interest in the RF, and if some of them want to chat ad infinitum about them why not?

I fail to see why it gets people’s back up.

I enjoyed Trisher's comment.
It was relevant; thought provoking; and she didn't have a pop at anyone else on the thread

tickingbird yes Diana used the press and this led to her death,
causes me to be fearful for Harry.

William thankfully doesn’t dance with the devil

Trisher Your last post perfectly illustrates my earlier points. You aren’t on this thread to comment on the OP. You are only here to trash the RF and will use any excuse to do so. So predictable.

Tickingbird my point is not so much the interest as the number of identical threads going at the same time (some started by someone who never returns which I find really bizarre!)where you must admit comments become repetitive

Oh boy! Using the metaphor of a family business built through the hard work of generations just shows how ridiculous this RF worship is. The RF was built through generations of murder and robbery, with a little rape on the side, not to mention some manipulation by interested parties in the aristocracy and politicians. It has never required hard work by any of its members. Although a little manipulation of acts of parliament and tax interference have benefitted it in recent times.
If it was to be compared to anything it should be leaving the Mafia.

Others only manage to derail threads if you engage with them. This is another thread that’s going the same way. I may start another H & M thread if I get time later. There’s bound to be something new on the news or another pronouncement from Harry in a podcast.

As for someone saying what’s wrong with publicity on their own terms? It doesn’t work like that. It’s been repeatedly stated that’s how Diana operated. Using the press when it suited her and expecting them to leave her alone when it didn’t. It’s a two way street and the press don’t just turn up and give you publicity when you want it. They aren’t anyone’s free PR machine. Anyone who thinks that is naive in the extreme.

Someone asked why so many people are interested in the H & M show.

He was a kind of poster boy for many older people - like the grandson of a friend, whose latest photograph gets shown around the coffee cups. Tragically lost his mother at a young age, but seen in those photos and bits of news with father, brother and grandparents, serving in the armed forces, sent abroad, enjoying life with various pretty girls etc etc. He meets the love of his life and marries her and they start a family - a happy ending to the story, all the grannies are pleased for him.

Then we hear he has left his family firm. Fine. Most people want that at their age - to gain independence, to forge their own place in the world, to establish their own home and family. Telling your parents that you don't want to spend the rest of your life serving in their shop (which they and your grandparents and greatgrandparents before them have spent their own lives doing, building it up from a tiny corner newsagents into a thriving business with a good relationship with its many customers) must be as difficult as Harry telling his family that he wanted out.

Most people manage the transition without permanent estrangement. Also most people recognise the connection between the right to independence and the responsibility to maintain oneself in independence by the sweat of one's own brow. If you aren't serving in the shop, you don't get a wage.

However, they are using the family that raised Harry as simultaneously a stepping-stone to forge that place, (by using the fame of the RF and the publicity of that magnificent wedding (apparently put on just to entertain the masses) and a whipping-boy to blame for their every unhappiness. Oh, and Harry complains that his father isn't supporting him financially any more, although he (Harry) is a multi-millionaire in his own right.

They have employed a top marketing firm to help them to do all this. So it isn't accidental - it is a deliberate policy to make themselves more famous than the Windsors, in fact to trash the Windsors as part of the publicity for their own image. Some businessmen publicise their organisations by rubbishing the ethics of the competition and circulating rumours of unsavoury dealings in the boardroom. There is a whiff of that in the stories that are "released" or that "escape" via friends.

It seems to me that many people are interested because they have negative opinions of the couple. It is partly the personal aspect, the trashing of family for not being perfect (no-one is) but who did their best for a distraught boy, and partly the cold business aspect.

Where opinions are not negative, the interest is in the young man who is doing his best to make sense of his life. Only he can sort out what is good and what bad in it, and now that he has left his family circle, he can form a better perspective on it. When he has conquered his demons and looks back, I just hope he doesn't find he has thrown out the baby with the bathwater.

Didn't Harry always want to live somewhere in Africa?
Wasn't that the plan?
He and Meghan got engaged there if I remember correctly.
I wonder what would have happened had he married Chelsey Davy.

What I meant was she’s 70 he’s in his 30’s for example. She lives a countryside life he doesn’t.

I see.

I think Harry could have lived a country life similar to Anne's if he'd wanted to and, after he married, if his wife wanted to as well.

But my point was really that Anne gets on with the job she was given. Harry doing a job that he was given might not be ideal but I suspect that a large proportion of the population have to do jobs they don't particularly like just to earn their living. I'm not arguing he should do a job he doesn't like but I think he should stop complaining about how hard his lot has been because I think, coming from one so privileged, this is what irritates people, especially as he attacks members of his family that many other people respect very much. Even many anti-monarchy types respect the Queen and the late Prince Philip. There is something about doing what is perceived to be your duty that is emminently respect-worthy.

Perhaps doing something respect-worthy is what H & M are trying to do; it's just not very convincing as yet.

Ellianne, yes when you quoted her post !!

Well we'll all have to do our best to not engage in posts that amount to personal attacks, won't we?

This thread as previous threads will be closed down for the same reason.

Ellianne

Alegrias1

Oh dear, Ellianne, I hope you're not trying to moderate any threads, are you ?

Certainly not, theres no point two of us making fools of ourselves!

Sorry with respect Lucca where did I even mention Alegrias by
Where did I even address her?

errrmmm....when you quoted my post?

A girl could get a complex....

Just wondering if that was a personal attack...? Luckily I'm a grown up. So we'll let it stand and let the people who read it make their own minds up.

Until she jumped on me if course * Lucca*.