I’ve just seen something that has left me feeling very upset and shaky

I think that an entirely plant based diet is certainly a life-style choice and not something that our digestive systems have evolved to live by entirely. We have evolved a smaller gut than other apes which means that we need more high quality energy intake found in meat rather than plants. Look at the apes tummy?

We do know that meat contributed to humans evolving a bigger brain than other apes, and the brain takes about 20% more energy dense food than the rest of the body.

As Hunter gatherers we evolved to eat a variety of food including meat. In fact the Inuits until recently lived almost entirely on meat. So I think a balanced diet is the way to go as far as I am concerned.

I take on board the environmental factors and have reduced my meat consumption. I also give as much regard to the animals as I possibly can, enquiring about the quality of their life and I know exactly what happens when they and how they are killed- although I have not witnessed it first hand.

saetana Maybe you don’t “believe” it is healthy to remove meat from your diet but there are many people who live healthily without eating meat who would disprove that belief. That you say you have “no time for vegans” is evidence that your belief is simply your opinion with no evidence to support it.

I know we do not eat certain animals in this country but I firmly believe that if you eat meat of any kind you should be prepared to watch footage of it being killed. Of course it is possible to buy organic meat or other more humanely treated options. I have no time for vegans and similarly no time for anyone who feels a meal isn't a meal without meat of some kind. We eat meat a couple of times a week and have found a happy medium between conscience (including climate change) and desire. I personally do not believe it is healthy to completely remove meat from one's diet.

Instead of folk arguing whether everyone should become vegans/vegetarian/meat eaters, please remember we all have our own reasons for our choices and shouldn’t feel as though we have to justify that choice to anyone.

But, maybe if we went back to eating food we can produce in our own countries and stop the intense farming where some animals never see the light of day things might improve and our agriculture might begin to thrive again. Folk might begin to grow their own or get an allotment. Yes, meat produce will become more expensive, but that in turn will slow down the eating of meat to the extent we do now.

Oh please will the Vegan Bandwagon Drivers give us a break. I am so cheesed off with the sanctimonious opportunistic bashing of people who choose to eat a broad balanced diet. Kindly get off our case. Pretty please.
This is a serious issue, not yet another "Look at me, I wear a diet-halo" session. The cruelty in Chinese markets and at their so called festivals is bigger than Developed World petty nonsense. I agree it's frustrating and sickening to think how little we can do but hopefully little by little global public
opinion might someday make a difference. I feel just as horrified at the situation.

"For those who have chosen to be vegan or even vegetarian it’s ideal. They are eating food they enjoy without constant criticism."

That's not true, unfortunately

My now cut off narc parents were soooooooo worried when I went veggie they tried everything to sabotage my choice for "the sake of my health"

I have been questioned by other people why I pick such an "unhealthy" diet as human beings "need meat".
I have been accused of neglecting my kids for following a veggie diet.

I dont preach, I don't try to convert anybody, don't announce my choice to the world expecting kudos - just let me be, as I also respect your choices

For those who have chosen to be vegan or even vegetarian it’s ideal. They are eating food they enjoy without constant criticism.
I can’t eat foods with soya in (means a lot of reading lists) so can’t eat some vegan foods. I like vegetables but I don’t enjoy all vegan alternatives, even when prepared by vegan experts.
A lady I work with is vegan. How do I know? Not because she proudly announces how long she’s been vegan or why. Not because she lectures us on the evils of meat eating. Simply because she made the most delicious chocolate cake with olive oil and we all asked for the recipe and why she had made it like that. Maybe a few ‘delicious’ recipes would be more convincing.

For most humans it’s perfectly possible to live healthily without eating animal products. There are some who find it difficult/ impossible. It’s a choice some are are lucky to be able to make.

Harmonypuss

To those of you banging on about how 'easy' it is to change one's eating habits....

In some cases (such as mine) it's not only not 'easy' but actually impossible for some people to go vegan or even vegetarian.

I am allergic to/intolerant of the majority of vegetables, so without meat, eggs, dairy etc, I would have very little to live on, so please, don't make out that it's a simple choice for everyone.

I can't bear the idea of any type of animal mistreatment and can't bring myself to even look at any tv adverts for badly treated animals from around the world as well as here in the uk but I do accept that certain animals are breed to be used for food and that we here in the UK do at least have stringent rules about the ways in which they must be cared for and prepared for our food.

Harmonypuss,
I feel for you, I’ve just been diagnosed with a disease and I’ve been told by my consultant that I have to cut out all food that provides fibre.
Not easy as all my diet consists of veg, fruit, lentils, beans etc..
I am vegan, will I go back to eating meat, eggs and dairy because I can’t eat much else.
No I won’t.

I watched a few videos similar to the one you mention and couldn’t get them from my mind. We can’t unsee certain things.
And that’s why I’ve been a vegan for a few years.
There’s no difference between the life of a dog or a cow, every animal deserves to live.

Did we really need to know the barbaric methods they use to kill the dogs!?

Peasblossom

Actually elderlyperson when I was travelling in the East, the slaughter of birds to keep them off the rice was quite traumatic.

They did eat the birds. But we eat the rice?

Thank you for that. I did not know.

To those of you banging on about how 'easy' it is to change one's eating habits....

In some cases (such as mine) it's not only not 'easy' but actually impossible for some people to go vegan or even vegetarian.

I am allergic to/intolerant of the majority of vegetables, so without meat, eggs, dairy etc, I would have very little to live on, so please, don't make out that it's a simple choice for everyone.

I can't bear the idea of any type of animal mistreatment and can't bring myself to even look at any tv adverts for badly treated animals from around the world as well as here in the uk but I do accept that certain animals are breed to be used for food and that we here in the UK do at least have stringent rules about the ways in which they must be cared for and prepared for our food.

Actually elderlyperson when I was travelling in the East, the slaughter of birds to keep them off the rice was quite traumatic.

They did eat the birds. But we eat the rice?

What a pity that someone seeing a distressing picture has led to unsolicited evangelising from vegan and vegetarian posters.

The reference to veganism as a protected belief is a timely reminder that it is an opinion with which others might differ. I say might differ but vegans still only number 1.2 per cent of the population so it is clear that the other 87 per cent of the non vegetarian and vegan have their opinions too but are tolerant and refrain from being the JW’s of the comestible world.

NoddingGanGan

@ElderlyPerson, your diet has never cost the life of an animal? Never eaten oyster mushrooms? What about the pesticides used in crop growing? Don't insects count as animals? Or the animals further up the food chain that have had their food (the insects) stolen by the plant eating humans? When I was a child you couldn't drive a few miles down the road in the summer without the windscreen of the car becoming covered in bugs. Now there's hardly any!
I totally respect anyone's decision to become vegan but the only way to truly help the planet is to eat within one's own ecosystem, eat less meat and waste nothing. We can't keep growing crops without the fertilizer supplied by the herbivores we are perfectly formed to digest as part of our diet putting back the nutrients we strip from the soil with our crop growing. Without them, we must resort to more and more chemicals. Vegetables force grown under miles and miles of plastic then shipped halfway around the world by plane are not good for the planet, not good for the ecosystem and not good for animal life generally, not just humans.

Alas no, I was not always vegan. Just accepted it as the indoctrination gets into us all our lives.

But no murdered animal body eaten since around 1990 and totally vegan since 1997 or so when I gave up fish and dairy.

I have not met the term oyster mushroom. I have eaten mushrooms but not for years. Not due to any vegan issue, just found them difficult to digest.

A lot of my food is organic.

The only grains I have are rice, usually basmati. This is because I avoid gluten.

In addition to being vegan for ethical reasons - though it may possibly also be masking a possible lactose intolerance - I am also on a restricted diet for medical reasons, but my diet has been checked out and approved by a hospital dietician after I requested a referral from my doctor to make sure I had got it right.

Alas gluten-free vegan is squeezed out. It falls between two stools.

Lots of these new vegan ready meals have wheat in them, there is no need to do so in many of them.

But I have never been wilfully cruel, just the opposite in fact.

For example, if a fly gets in the house, I let it out the window, I don't hurt it as some people would.

Always have done.

I cannot stand animal cruelty, but like many others, I choose to eat meat, and I have wonderful inner peace thanks Elderly person. I am so happy that you have found your inner peace becoming vegan, but my inner peace is when my extremely skin n bone granddaughter who has been poorly finally eats her chicken soup, or even half of a ham sandwich...
Vegan isn't for everyone, though like most we do the best we can to buy as humanely as we can.
I guess I find my peace by thinking even if I stopped overnight enjoying me bacon, they wouldn't stop the meat trade!

Jess20 No meat is cruelty free.
Killing a sentient being is cruel.
Why should something have to die to feed me.
Well done for trying to be vegan. All the best for your vegan journey it’s not as hard as you would think. ??

We have chicken and liver about once every month or two, the rest of the time we are vegetarians but we don't buy the ready made meat substitutes as they all seem to contain a high degree of salt, instead I make them from scratch. This all tarted from when we would spend a great deal of time in SE Asia and saw the how animals were treated and sold in the markets. I won't go into details as it would make your stomach churn.

May7

Not smug at all

My DH and I refused and were practically force fed vegetables as children. Spending hours at the dinner table looking at cabbage. (Different times I suppose) We never did this to ours and to our surprise they all became vegetarian when they went to Uni. They taught me to cook vegetables differently and showed me alternatives. We continued to eat meat but it became less and less. When I heard and saw the Wet Markets at the beginning of the Covid outbreak it absolutely turned my stomach and DH and I decided to eat only plant based food. What a revelation for us. Feel so much better and have more energy. Still can't eat sprouts whichever way you cook them though ugh .
We all have choices at the end of the day. I'm not being smug just explaining what my tipping point was

maybe70 Please let us know what animal rights groups think “some animals should not exist at all” why it is “ok for people to be traumatised” and tell us why that is relevant to this discussion. Just because some extremists think people should not have pets is not really the point, some people think dogfighting and badger baiting and worse are OK, Doesn’t mean everyone does. Surely we should be aware of cruelty in order to minimise it and not turn a blind eye to it. Not saying horrible videos should pop up on Facebook or whatever.

Dogs eat meat and that is one of the reasons most of us don’t eat dogs. Same applies to cats.

So, people are upset at the thought of animals being abused. I understand that. But it’s ok for a person to be traumatised by seeing a horrific video that they didn’t want to see. Some animal rights groups don’t actually want animals to exist at all eg they don’t think that people should have pets. I think peta is one of them. Even animals such as chimpanzees and giant pandas eat some meat.

I'm moving towards being vegan as I find excessive cruelty hard to watch and cannot guarantee that any meat I eat is cruelty free. It's not easy but I'm trying. Turning away is cowardly imho and I don't personally want to be in denial of what is involved in meat eating and reliance on animal based products.