Le Café des flamants roses has a small garden where people can talk English to ask questions about what is being said in French in the café

Oui, j’ ai étudié le français, j’ ai enseigné le français, et maintenant je suis retraitée.
Une licence de français a sûrement beaucoup changé.

Ma petite-fille va étudier le français pour A level, et aussi les sciences. Ell est très forte en français, mais elle pense que les sciences vont lui offrir une meilleure carrière.

Yes. I studied French, I taught French, and now i am retired, so my experience wont be same as someone studying it today.
My granddaughter has opted to include French in her A levels, plus Maths, Physics and Chemistry. She is good at all four, but thinks sciences will offer better carreer propsects.

Cabbie21

Yes. I studied French, I taught French, and now i am retired, so my experience wont be same as someone studying it today.
My granddaughter has opted to include French in her A levels, plus Maths, Physics and Chemistry. She is good at all four, but thinks sciences will offer better carreer propsects.

Wow! That is a combination that would not have been possible at the school that I attended.

The great two cultures divide.

Yet does the system allow your granddaughter to experience writing up a physics experiment in French?

“ Yet does the system allow your granddaughter to experience writing up a physics experiment in French?”
I’d think it unlikely as it would require her physics teacher to have a certain level of French and vice versa !
Nothing to stop her doing it for her own benefit though.

Into a forest with the Past Historic!

www.gransnet.com/forums/chat/1299051-Le-Caf-des-flamants-roses-allons-nous-crire-une-histoire-au-pass-historique

For me, French is French whatever, whenever. What I mean is, that the language itself doesn't really change over the years, just the specification and the emphasis placed on the different areas of study. My O Level and A Level were like Lucca's, lots of grammar, translations, literature and the thing I loved most was dictées. I went to school in France for several months when I was 15 which helped enormously. (Even fell in love there with my future fiancé at that time!)
I became a translator, a banker, a London guide, a teacher, a Headmistress, a school holiday organiser and ran a gîte complex.
My children are pretty good at French too. They were at an independent school so were able to study a mixture of Chemistry, Biology, Geography, Sociology and French at A Level. My eldest son wrote a thesis on an hydroelectric barrage in France for his Masters (translated from various French textbooks), so his language skills came in useful, even more so now that several of his big engineering projects are working with EDF.
You just never know where languages can lead you!

ElderlyPerson

Into a forest with the Past Historic!

www.gransnet.com/forums/chat/1299051-Le-Caf-des-flamants-roses-allons-nous-crire-une-histoire-au-pass-historique

The thing is EP, I would not use the PH. in some of the instances you quote.
It is used primarily for very formal writing - most people would use the passé composé and the imperfect tenses.
Secondly if you are describing ongoing events in the past such as the sun shone/was shining, I was happy or whatever, you would use the imperfect.
Similarly for repeated actions in the past - he went to the bakers every day.
I think you enjoy intellectual exercises, like this one, your story using past tenses, but with respect, it may be a bit of a turn off for those who just want to chat to brush up their French.

A bit of useful vocab from yesterday's TV news "le contact-tracing'. ?

Actually I think the language does change Ellianne. If you listen to old newsreel footage the French sounds much slower and clearer than today's newsreaders. I was talking to some friends about the problems of understanding les ados and they said, "it's ok we don't understand them either". ?
Huge amounts of English in the mix now, plus other vocabulary from immigration.

Mamie

Often, Fennel it is for feelings like doubt or uncertainty that imply necessity or possibility. "If I were you" is similar if you think about it.
The one I use most is il faut que - it is necessary that or I must....
I like il faut que je fasse, but mostly I just stick the infinitive after it, which is easiest. ?

Alors utilise 'devoir + infinitif' - très simple et tout aussi efficace + correct!

Bien sûr que les langues changent et évoluent. Et le Passé Simple ne s'utilise plus de nos jours.

ElderlyPerson

Cabbie21

Yes. I studied French, I taught French, and now i am retired, so my experience wont be same as someone studying it today.
My granddaughter has opted to include French in her A levels, plus Maths, Physics and Chemistry. She is good at all four, but thinks sciences will offer better carreer propsects.

Wow! That is a combination that would not have been possible at the school that I attended.

The great two cultures divide.

Yet does the system allow your granddaughter to experience writing up a physics experiment in French?

Writing up a physics experiment in French doesn't require A level. It requires a solid grounding in structures (grammar) and the ability to look up the specialist vocabulary.

My partner's son did GCSE French at school and studied physics at university. He spent a year in France as part of the Erasmus programme, met his future wife and now works in France as a physicist, where he has to speak French at work.

Même dans le années 80, quand j'ai fait ma licence B.Ed.Hons en français et allemand - on n'a pas étudié le Passé Simple, car archaïque. Il faut juste savoir le reconnaître en littérature, mais pas l'utiliser soi-même.

What is wrong with letting people experiment with language as in EP's past historic thread? We all know it isn't used, we all know language evolves, but please don't anyone destroy the fun of dipping into any discussion. Otherwise in my opinion it all becomes very teacher like.

Marydoll

Q. What does a degree in French involve?
A. A lot of angst and stress in my experience!

... and boredom.

... especially Corneille and Racine.

I took a joint degree in French and German and regretted it almost from the beginning, but stuck with it because my parents wouldn't let me give up and start again.

We have to make the distinction between those who baturally want to discuss the French language at a very high level, and who are bilingual, compared with some who want to chat for fun and who might feel inhibited.
Maybe separate threads?

Was that Cambridge growstuff? Their joint language degrees were thought of highly.

Pourquoi switcher en anglais? Non, ce n'est pas nécessaire- l'usage du passé simple n'est pas de haut niveau- juste archaïque et dépassé et n'a rien à voir avec la communication claire et effective.

Une expression drôle et appropriée ici

'pourquoi chercher midi à quatorze heures'

ou

'pourquoi faire simple quand on peut faire compliqué' (qui un peut sarcastique mdr)

Kali2

Pourquoi switcher en anglais? Non, ce n'est pas nécessaire- l'usage du passé simple n'est pas de haut niveau- juste archaïque et dépassé et n'a rien à voir avec la communication claire et effective.

Because just what I was saying Kali, look at the title of the thread. You have moved the discussion onto a much much higher level. Your French is outstandingly good, almost perfect, but the fun element will be lost if those who are learning the basics feel bogged down. EP himself posts in English on here too, take the lead from him. It doesnt have to be so intense that posters can't express themselves any way they choose.

I think my favourite expression is one often used by people in the rural village where we used to live - "il faut faire avec", normally accompanied by a big sigh.

MawBe

ElderlyPerson

Into a forest with the Past Historic!

www.gransnet.com/forums/chat/1299051-Le-Caf-des-flamants-roses-allons-nous-crire-une-histoire-au-pass-historique

The thing is EP, I would not use the PH. in some of the instances you quote.
It is used primarily for very formal writing - most people would use the passé composé and the imperfect tenses.
Secondly if you are describing ongoing events in the past such as the sun shone/was shining, I was happy or whatever, you would use the imperfect.
Similarly for repeated actions in the past - he went to the bakers every day.
I think you enjoy intellectual exercises, like this one, your story using past tenses, but with respect, it may be a bit of a turn off for those who just want to chat to brush up their French.

Thank you for your comments.

So in what I wrote is it just the sun shining through the trees that needs the imperfect?

> I think you enjoy intellectual exercises, like this one, your story using past tenses ...

Yes, indeed. I was in school in the 1960s and we were taught the past historic. I think that I did it alright. The subjunctive I got in a muddle. So now, I would like to explore both the past historic and try to learn the subjunctive.
Is there a subjunctive part for the past historic?
You mention using the imperfect.
I either never knew, or had forgotten, that one can mix the past historic with the imperfect in one story, so I have learned that this morning. Thank you.
One thing, as Antonia introduced the story including the concept of it being a dream, it occurs to me that if, say, that the story goes on to meet three other unicorns (as a way to use third person plural past historic in the story - the three unicorns looked at us) and, as it is a dream, one of the unicorns speaks, in which tense should what the unicorn says be please, given that the story is overall in the past historic.

As in, she said " (whatever) ".

> .., but with respect, it may be a bit of a turn off for those who just want to chat to brush up their French.

Well, if someone 'just' wants one part, fine. But some of us might like various aspects of French.

Chat in French in the café, explore the past historic in traditional style in the story thread and its garden thread.

Chat about French in English in this thread.

Other threads could be available for other aspects of French.

The comment that the story is like 18th Century writing pleased me.

If it were typeset in a font of that era, that could look good.

Kali2

Pourquoi switcher en anglais? Non, ce n'est pas nécessaire- l'usage du passé simple n'est pas de haut niveau- juste archaïque et dépassé et n'a rien à voir avec la communication claire et effective.

Read the thread title !

I sometimes forget which thread I am in and use the wrong language.

Kali2. To clarify…I meant that this is the garden thread where English is used to discuss french grammar etc.

I’m with you on the past historic. It doesn’t float my boat (et alors comment ça se dit en français ?!)

It’s similar in Italian but used more widely eg in Tuscany or Sicily and in formal/newspaper writing. We only ever taught our a level students how it worked and how to recognise the meaning.

Cabbie21

I sometimes forget which thread I am in and use the wrong language.

The thread titles are too similar.