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Le Café des flamants roses, le jardin des licornes

(114 Posts)
ElderlyPerson Tue 27-Jul-21 10:55:58

Here is a garden for discussing the story The Forest of the Unicorns in English.

The idea is that the story is written in French in the past historic tense.

Yet first, some of us will need to learn or relearn the past historic tense.

Perhaps some others who know will remind us please.

ElderlyPerson Mon 02-Aug-21 11:47:21

MawBe

ElderlyPerson

MawBe

I recognise the underlining of verbs/vocabulary syndrome! ?‍?
How do students manage nowadays when everything is online?

I never defaced books by writing or underlining anything in them.

Oh no!

My own books, literary texts whatever - yes, a study aid.
What is the problem?

Just that to me, writing in a book is wrong.

Other opinions are available (from other people though, not from me)

ElderlyPerson Mon 02-Aug-21 11:45:04

Other videos are available from the same channel.

For example,

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vhf2m9Rncww

If it were not for this discussion I may never have known of these videos.

MawBe Mon 02-Aug-21 11:43:03

ElderlyPerson

MawBe

I recognise the underlining of verbs/vocabulary syndrome! ?‍?
How do students manage nowadays when everything is online?

I never defaced books by writing or underlining anything in them.

Oh no!

My own books, literary texts whatever - yes, a study aid.
What is the problem?

Kali2 Mon 02-Aug-21 11:38:04

Jolie histoire.

I wonder what her MT is- as she has a slight accent, for instance pronouncing 'crocs' with the 'c'. And also the 'ne nous abandonnez' pas written incorrectly.

Agreed, ElderlyPerson - but when teaching, it can be useful.

ElderlyPerson Mon 02-Aug-21 11:31:28

MawBe

I recognise the underlining of verbs/vocabulary syndrome! ?‍?
How do students manage nowadays when everything is online?

I never defaced books by writing or underlining anything in them.

Oh no!

ElderlyPerson Mon 02-Aug-21 11:28:38

MawBe

“…And it was still hot! “
(Love this book )

I found it!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRJahOxk8sw

MawBe Mon 02-Aug-21 11:22:41

I recognise the underlining of verbs/vocabulary syndrome! ?‍?
How do students manage nowadays when everything is online?

Kali2 Mon 02-Aug-21 11:17:01

Ooops High

Kali2 Mon 02-Aug-21 11:16:32

Hig brow perhaps - but a modern author would never ever write like this. So good to be able to read and understand- no point in learning to write like this. Unless you are doing a Masters in French classics.

Ellianne Mon 02-Aug-21 11:12:57

And now for something more highbrow

MawBe Mon 02-Aug-21 10:57:36

“…And it was still hot! “
(Love this book )

Ellianne Mon 02-Aug-21 10:39:50

Examples of tenses from GC's storybook

Kali2 Mon 02-Aug-21 10:29:32

ElderlyPerson

Kali2

If you really want to learn French- just forget about the Passé Simple. It is archaïc and not used any more, so why makes things complicated with useless stuff. If it is for fun, as a bit of a joke, then it's OK to use it, but only if.

It is certainly not a joke.

Fun, yes, but also to explore the classical style.

But was the tense used in French novels in the past?

For example, did Alexandre Dumas use the past historic?

Yes he did, and so many others too. So it is useful to be able to recognise the Passé Simple, and to understand it when reading all the classical authors.

However, anyone who wants to learn French as it is used today, even by well educated people- then there is absolutely no need to learn to use it actively, be it orally or in writing.

I imagine most people who want to learn a language do so because they want to be able to communicate well, freely and effectively. And in this context, the Passé Simple is just not required, and in fact, becomes an obstacle.

To tell a story that happened in the past- you use the Passé Composé, with 'avoir' and 'mouvement' verbs with 'être' for all actions, and the Imperfect for all descriptions as in 'il y avait'

...beaucoup de touristes
... des champignons
...des souris
...de la neige

or

c'était fabuleux
les touristes étaient très bruyants
le soleil brillait
il faisait très chaud
les enfants jouaient sur la plage avec des unicornes gonflables

etc, etc.

Ce Week-end je suis allé à Paris.
Il faisait beau et chaud.
J'ai visité la Tour Eiffel et ensuite, je suis allé à La Place des Vosges. J'ai mangé une quiche et j'ai bu un Pinot noir excellent.
Je me suis bien régalé (passé composé of reflexive verds are also used with 'être').

ElderlyPerson Mon 02-Aug-21 10:18:49

MawBe

ElderlyPerson

So I now appreciate that it was the wrong tense, but why was it the wrong verb?

I meant the wrong form of the verb

Ah right, thank you for clarifying.

ElderlyPerson Mon 02-Aug-21 10:17:44

Kali2

If you really want to learn French- just forget about the Passé Simple. It is archaïc and not used any more, so why makes things complicated with useless stuff. If it is for fun, as a bit of a joke, then it's OK to use it, but only if.

It is certainly not a joke.

Fun, yes, but also to explore the classical style.

But was the tense used in French novels in the past?

For example, did Alexandre Dumas use the past historic?

MawBe Mon 02-Aug-21 10:17:20

ElderlyPerson

So I now appreciate that it was the wrong tense, but why was it the wrong verb?

I meant the wrong form of the verb

Ellianne Mon 02-Aug-21 10:16:08

My grandchildren have a pile of story books and lots of them are in the passé historique so learning it isn't a useless exercise.

ElderlyPerson Mon 02-Aug-21 10:14:51

So I now appreciate that it was the wrong tense, but why was it the wrong verb?

MawBe Mon 02-Aug-21 10:06:17

The passé historique is not used for description but for “completed actions” in the past, and “there is, there are, there was, there were” are descriptive so you would use “il y a/il y avait” and “ il y aura” in the future

Kali2 Mon 02-Aug-21 10:05:18

If you really want to learn French- just forget about the Passé Simple. It is archaïc and not used any more, so why makes things complicated with useless stuff. If it is for fun, as a bit of a joke, then it's OK to use it, but only if.

Kali2 Mon 02-Aug-21 10:03:47

You are totally correct. For description you should use the imperfect. Il y avait, is spot on, even if the Passé Simple is used for the narrative.

ElderlyPerson Mon 02-Aug-21 10:00:20

>> Dans la clairière, il y eut beaucoup de livres.

> “Il y avait - the correct form of the wrong verb is still wrong.

I don't understand what is wrong. Can we discuss this please.

There seem to be two intertwined issues.

Start with the present tense

Il y a ...

First issue: How does

Il y a

work if one changes the tense,

so the known is

There are ...

How do were get

There were ....

and

There will be

please?

Is the 'a' in 'Il y a' part of avoir, yet the meaning seems to be part of 'to be'.

So issue 2 is, building upon issue 1, which verb is used in the past historic, or should it not be in the past historic.

This mixing of tenses when the past historic is used is either new to me or I have forgotten.

I got the

eut

from

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pass%C3%A9_simple

I have tried to understand the comment.

Can someone explain please?

ElderlyPerson Fri 30-Jul-21 07:33:17

Please correct any mistakes that I have made as I want to learn.

ElderlyPerson Fri 30-Jul-21 07:32:30

I added the following to the story this morning.

Je lus le poème à l'araignée et aux licornes.

Dans un château
deux canards
mangèrent un gâteau
et des épinards

The following were helpful, as well as Google translate.

study.com/academy/lesson/lire-in-french-definition-conjugation.html

www.lawlessfrench.com/verb-conjugations/lire/

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pass%C3%A9_simple

I find that Google translate is good for vocabulary and finding the gender of a word, will translate the past historic into English but does convert the past historic into another tense in French if it gets the chance.

Ellianne Thu 29-Jul-21 15:02:03

Oooh yes, it is a she bien sûr!