Mridul Wadhwa - Male CEO of Edinburgh Rape Crisis

So how would you regard those who seek to deny women the right to single sex spaces.

Insisting on calling a trans woman 'he' is quite extreme Chewbacca.

You said that you don't regard gender critical feminists as equal. That is exactly how you put it. And you accuse others of online bullying ?

I don't know what you are on about when you mention regimes in this context, but for the record (a bit of a stuck one, but hey ho) I am not interested in denying anyone's rights - quite the reverse, but as I've been told that my views are not worth taking seriously and all the rest, I don't expect for a minute that you will accept that I am telling the truth.

MW is managing not counselling and training not dealing with clients.

But, as pointed out pages ago, with an alternative agenda which means that women have to undertake a journey which has nothing to do with the trauma they have undergone.

Women treating women is what is happening. Women having the right to chose their own counsellor is what is happening. It has always been possible to insist on having a counsellor they are comfortable with. And it will continue to be that way.

I certainly see gender critical feminist as trying to deny other women certain rights. That is a choice those GCF are making.

I find it significantly harder to live with the fact that men are eroding women's rights via trans activism. Women's rights are not anti-trans. Campaigning to uphold the sex-based rights of women under the Equality Act is not anti-trans. Unless of course you believe that women's rights are anti-trans?

Women have fought long and hard for rights and equality only to find them being eroded by a vociferous minority, not all of whom are genuine.

But any regime that denies others rights is generally seen as extremist

I am feeling that being told what is real by transwomen is just as you put above.
I cannot accept that a man can become a woman. If I am wrong then I guess I will find out but there is no proof that a man can be a woman that I know of..

Some Transwomen want their beliefs to ride over most women's which is the same as men telling women what to say and do. So nothing new then.

I have always accepted a transwoman as a valid person I can like and want to spend time with.
But I cannot suspend my beliefs for theirs.
I would never confront an individual on this either, It is the group and the movement that worries me. I mean stonewall.

Individually I have not problem that anther person has beliefs that I don;t subscribe. Just do not insist that their beliefs are more valid than mine.
why would I want to do that?

The very small minority that are not genuine do not represent the whole though.

That argument is very similar to the argument that rape apologists use to describe rape accusations. They pick the one in a million that is false and use it to denigrate the mass of genuine ones.

Pink, 50 years ago, that argument would have been used by straight people towards homosexual. Times change and what is believed and accepted changes.

I read an article today about a 90 year old trans woman who knew as a small child she was the opposite gender but was unable to express that at the time. It has always happened and been there. It's just that there was not the social space to express it in.

Other cultures have the same thing. The berdache. It isn't new. It has always been there.

Yes times change, the voices of detransitioners are being heard, legislation has ensured that gender critical beliefs are protected under law, the census was changed after protest to ensure sex was included, very quietly facilities that were mixed sex are being changed back to single sex because of the difficulties encountered.

I have no problem whatsoever as I think I have always realised this is how some people are.

What I find difficult to accept is that someone who has been traumatised by rape has to go on a journey to overcome any prejudices they may have towards transgender people.
That is not what their journey is about - it is irrelevant at that time and changes the focus from the victim to the counsellor.

Yes. We know. Even we inferiors are aware of history, sociology and general knowledge.

The arguments of 50 years ago about gay people are not equivalent at all. As I remember them, they were based on (or excused by) religion, or the fear that all straight people were irresistible to gays who would come onto them at the drop of a feathered hat and would corrupt their sons and daughters.

All nonsense, obviously, but not the same as the arguments put forward by gender critical feminists who simply want to protect the rights to safe spaces, and amongst other things to female-only shortlists (hence the strength of feeling on this thread).

that was in response to GagaJo's last post, not to Callistemon's

The strength of feeling towards gay people was pretty strong too. Assault, violence, even by the police.

The arguments are different because the times are different. It's all part of the same process. Civil rights. Gay rights. Womens rights. Trans rights.

We do not lose when they gain.

To precis:
I object to a Rape Crisis Centre and the women who desperately need the services of that Centre being used as a vehicle to promote transgender rights.

The thing is gagajo because of my history it will always be gay rights for me and I am afraid I find denying the existence of sex homophobic so I cant take part in it.

How is it homophobic?

What would you say to the previously butch lesbians that have transitioned to trans men? Or the effeminate gay guys who have become trans women?

Callistemon

To precis:
I object to a Rape Crisis Centre and the women who desperately need the services of that Centre being used as a vehicle to promote transgender rights.

That is succinctly put. I guess everything hinges on whether you feel that is what is happening. You do. I don't.

Just let her get on with the job and remove the hoopla.

What would you say to the lesbians who have detransitioned and say that it was homophobia that led them to transition. It is homophobia to deny the reality of sex, it is homophobic for Eddie izzard to say he is a lesbian. It's also as old as the hills, dear God I spent most of my twenties laughing at the straight men who wore the tshirt inside I am a lesbian. It was a way to counter that level of homophobia.

I should add to the above that the women needing the services of the Centre must be able to feel that they are in a safe environment which evidence is beginning to show that they do not.

But I think the other thing is that sexual violence happens to bigoted people as well. And so, you know, it is not discerning crime. But these spaces are also for you. But if you bring unacceptable beliefs that are discriminatory in nature, we will begin to work with you on your journey of recovery from trauma. But please also expect to be challenged on your prejudices
Mridul Wadhwa, Guilty Feminist podcast

That has no relevance whatsoever to helping these women and girls overcome their experiences but all to do with Mridul Wadhwa.

Is this person self-centred? Lacking insight and compassion? Has a need for personal validation?

The wrong person for the job.

I know lesbians who transitioned. I don't know any who have reversed the process. I'm not denying they're there. I just don't know any.

Genuine question Galaxy. HOW is the denial of binary sex homophobic?

I COULD waffle on, but I don't want to detract from that point.

Because being gay is being attracted to someone of the same sex. So Eddie izzard for example cant be a lesbian because he is a man.

I mean the fact that I have to say that is actually mind blowing. The lgb community do not agree on the whole issue, many are gender critical, I listen to those lgb people who arent gender critical and to those who are, I am not going to pretend or ignore the fact that many lgb people are raising concerns in the same way women are.

Galaxy

Because being gay is being attracted to someone of the same sex. So Eddie izzard for example cant be a lesbian because he is a man.

Absolutely.

Being gay means that there is an attraction to someone of the same sex (as you've just said, Galaxy!) and being straight means that you are attracted to the opposite sex. If sex is flexible, how does that work?

A gay woman is not attracted to men, and to suggest that she should be attracted to a man who says he is a woman is deeply offensive. It suggests that lesbians are women who just like the look of other women, as opposed to having a genuine sexual attraction to them. That is made worse when TRAs start to attack lesbians for refusing to entertain the idea of sleeping with untransitioned transwomen, saying that a penis is no different from a strap-on, and that they are bigoted, prejudiced, and all the things that people have been accused of on this very thread.