Mridul Wadhwa - Male CEO of Edinburgh Rape Crisis

It would seem the first 5 rules of misogyny fit here GG13

1st rule of misogyny: Women are responsible for what men do.

2nd rule of misogyny: Women saying no to men is a hate crime.

3rd rule of misogyny: Women speaking for themselves are exclusionary and selfish.

4th rule of misogyny: Women's opinions are violence against men thus male violence against women is justified.

5th rule of misogyny: WATM! [What about the Men] Women and Feminism must be useful to men or they are worthless.

I posted this on another thread, but I do think it has some relevance regarding what women/girls are up against in the 21st Century!

For your info trisher MW was very publicly vocal about his view that the SNP voted the wrong way, and that women who have suffered sexual violence should be able to request the gender, not the sex, of a medical examiner.

I would like to go slightly off topic for a minute and ask a direct question of trisher, if I may?

Has there ever been a case when you have defended the rights of a woman (or women in general) against the rights of a transwoman (or transwomen in general) on GN or elsewhere? If not, can you imagine a circumstance in which you might, and how would it look to you?

As it is I think 16 years of supporting women defeats your "she will make women who have been raped do this"

Did you read the bit about MW quitting the SNP because of MW's outrage over a parliamentary vote that survivors of sexual violence be entitled to request an examination from a same-sex clinician, rather than a same-gender one?

trisher, MW wanted to ensure that a woman who requests a female doctor could be presented with a male person who claims to be a woman.

I don't know how much interaction with clients MW has had, in that 'successful career' you seem to know all about.
Perhaps you could tell us?

Sarah Field has something really good to say about this and about feminism.

It is also very important to reiterate Rosie's point that believing you cant change sex is a belief protected by law.

trisher

Is it a sign of something that women who profess to be huge feminists need the comments of a man to support their views?
I find it quite funny.

That really is scraping the insult barrel?. I don't identify as a huge feminist, although I've gained a bit of weight in lockdown, to be fair. A 'larger than before' feminist, perhaps.

Anyway, I don't think any of us 'need a man's voice' to tell us anything. That is your interpretation, nobody else's, and says a lot about your mindset.

Personally, I will listen to the comments of most people, although if past experience suggests that someone's communication style is evasive, condescending, misogynistic and incredibly frustrating it is often with heavy heart.

My views, like those of many on here I think, are based on a way of thinking that tries not to discriminate against anyone, but if it comes to it and I have to prioritise one set of rights over another, if all else is equal I will put those of women first.

This is not because I am 'against' men (I have many men in my life whom I love), but because of female solidarity, and because women usually start from a weaker position because of centuries of oppression.

In the case of women 'versus' trans rights, whilst I would never discriminate against transwomen for its own sake, I would always prioritise women's rights, because women are (as a generalisation) physically weaker than men, because a transitioned man will have been socialised in a male way, which tends to be more aggressive than female socialisation, and because women's rights have been hard won, and I don't want future generations to have to do the fighting all over again.

My cautious nature doesnt apply to checking my posts for spelling

Thanks chewbacca I am just very cautious in that I think we need to behave slowly and carefully and I will be honest and say that I occasionally thinks Graham Linehan doesnt do that. This doesnt mean I dont think he has highlighted some very serious issues it's just too important to not get right. This is not a criticism of him or those who post ot just my natural cautios nature I suppose.

It is not transphobic to believe that sex is immutable and that transwomen remain male, which many transwomen also agree with. It is a belief protected by law. It is not transphobic to require a female counsellor or medical person. It should be an absolute given that the victim's feelings and comfort come first. Women are not support humans who must validate men or transwomen. If I can refuse a male who identifies as male, why should I not equally be able to refuse a male who identifies as a woman? Why is that male's need for validation supreme?

MW still has male sexual equipment and male hormones, whatever their personal view of their gender, and they are still looking at the sexual act from a male perspective. They are said to have experienced rape from the other side so they should be more in tune with the victim than has been evidenced by their public statements on the subject. Perhaps they should continue the successful counselling of rape victims, but refrain from pontificating about it and campaigning for a subsection of them to the detriment of the majority of clients. Either that or open a section which concentrates on the differences in the detail of the experiences and background of the subsection - because those are not exactly the same for transwomen as for natal women.

Everyone has probably read about the killings in Plymouth. The killer ^"made references to "incels" in some online social media videos. Incels are members of misogynistic online groups of "involuntary celibate" men, who blame women for their sexual failings and who have been linked to a number of violent acts around the world.^" yet some men still don't get why women who have experienced male sexual violence continue to fear.

Orgasm or not, intercourse is a most intimate experience, and if you remove the consensual sexual aspect, it can possibly be compared to forcing a claustrophobic into a very confined space then continuing to invade.

A woman in need of rape counselling and reassurance has been attacked by a man whose own perception of the event is warped by his sense of entitlement. It is not the woman who should be "reframing her trauma".

GrannyGravy13

When a woman is raped the penis is used as a weapon to violate her body.

I cannot begin to imagine the trauma and mind set of the victim, knowing that her counsellor who she is being encouraged to open up to has a penis under his skirt.

trisher I am not transphobic, if you purport to be a feminist why can you not see that this person is putting trans rights over that of women.

Because the little evidence there is for this seems to be her leaving a political party. As I have frequently said she has worked in the field for 16years but apparently in that time has been forcing people to have counsellors they don't want, except there is no evidence of this.
It isn't a man's perception that women orgasm duriing rape. That's a falacy that relies on all rape being something that is a violent action. Some rapes occur when a woman is drunk and unable to give consent, so she orgasms so it isn't rape? . As I said partner violence can begin with just an unaccepted "No" but apprently that isn't rape either. It is actualy telling women that ifthere is orgasm they can't have been raped. Which is just as bad as the old adage, "She was asking for it". Saying to women it may have pleased you but if you said no it shouldn't have happened is one of the most empowering things you can do,

When a woman is raped the penis is used as a weapon to violate her body.

I cannot begin to imagine the trauma and mind set of the victim, knowing that her counsellor who she is being encouraged to open up to has a penis under his skirt.

trisher I am not transphobic, if you purport to be a feminist why can you not see that this person is putting trans rights over that of women.

I find your repeated denials and dismissals make uncomfortable reading trisher and, to be honest, somewhat sinister. I can only imagine what your agenda is.

This will prove to be one of those scandals, like the Jimmy Saville affair, when people will say, “why did nobody listen. How did he get away with it”.

I fear you're right Peasblossom, only when hundreds of women have been scarred, and their fears have been dismissed for years, will anyone listen. You might be interested in looking at the threads on Mumsnet about this subject.

The whole idea of female orgasm in rape is a male one. A common male belief is that the woman was enjoying it really and was aroused.

To even suggest it proves how far Wadhwa is from understanding the female psyche and experience.

This happens in male rape because of the pressure on the prostate that leads to physical orgasm. A doctor can produce the same effect during a rectal examination.

You ask for evidence. I would like to read of one woman’s account of how this act of violence and fear led to an enjoyable orgasm.

Surely asking about orgasms in rape magnifies what can only be a male perspective.
Orgasms are , as we know, difficult enough even in a loving relationship

Rosie51

trisher deflection, deflection, deflection. Shall we address the documented reason Wadhwa left the SNP? That the SNP overwhelmingly voted for the right of a woman to choose their physician or counsellor on the basis of sex not identity gender. To endlessly quote FarNorth, because I can't think of a more perfect framing of the question, ^*Why would any male person, transwoman or not, want to insist on their 'right' to do an intimate examination of a traumatised woman?*^

It needs repeating.

trisher deflection, deflection, deflection. Shall we address the documented reason Wadhwa left the SNP? That the SNP overwhelmingly voted for the right of a woman to choose their physician or counsellor on the basis of sex not identity gender. To endlessly quote FarNorth, because I can't think of a more perfect framing of the question, *Why would any male person, transwoman or not, want to insist on their 'right' to do an intimate examination of a traumatised woman?*

trisher

trisher

Chewbacca have you any evidence that this has actually happened? She has been working with women survivors for sometime. Have any of the women she has dealt with complained? During the 16years since she started working in the field of women's aid how many women have complaind that she forced them to do as you say?

Chewbacca posted again because apparently you haven't read it. Show me the evidence that she has ever made any women uncomfortable by insisting on a particular counsellor and I will back you completely
As it is I think 16 years of supporting women defeats your "she will make women who have been raped do this"

We don’t know do we because any woman who was unhappy will have been silenced, by having her views ignored, derided or by made to feel that there is something wrong and bigoted about having those views.

Her fault, in fact.

This will prove to be one of those scandals, like the Jimmy Saville affair, when people will say, “why did nobody listen. How did he get away with it”

So much speculation, so much misrepresentation, so much absolutely unfounded accusation. Even if you disagree with transpeople, even if you are transphobic, even if you believe men are trying to take over the world the very least you could do is provide some proof of the allegations, some evidence of misrepresentation, some evidence of failure in a 16 year career.

As for the not discussing orgasm , why not? If a woman says "no"but a long standing partner has sex with her anyway and she orgasms is it not rape? Should she feel guilty? or should she realise what is happening and report it as rape?

Irradicated

Mollygo

I really tried to avoid this thread, but there is so much sense and truth posted by so many posters about the needs of the rape victim being more important than the feelings or desires of a transperson that I just wish to endorse those posts.
Whatever your beliefs, believe this. If you, as a woman have been attacked and raped by a man, you need the security of talking to a woman and the security of knowing that that woman won’t turn out to be a man and try to victimise you further by accusing you of bigotry and saying, or even just thinking, that you should ‘reframe your trauma.’

Totally agree Mollygo
This thread has made me ,angry and sad it feels like all progress we have made as women is being irradiated
by the trans issue.