Mridul Wadhwa - Male CEO of Edinburgh Rape Crisis

GagaJo

There is more than one type of bigotry, obviously. Based on gender, ethnicity, nationality, physical ability, age, size, class, occupation, level of education.

We should all expect to be challenged on bigotry. It is never appropriate.

Wow.
So sexual violence survivors can expect to have to work through all this, as well as their horrific experience?
That really isn't the time to do it.

Or is it only their 'transphobia' they have to be forced to confront, by having a male counselor who claims to be a woman?

GagaJo

If we read the transcript of what she said, it is clear that she IS NOT saying rape victims have to accept male support. It is asking that they rethink bigotry around trans issues. NOT in a counselling environment, but in general. By all means, take issue with her opinion on this. BUT don't make it into something it isn't.

But I think the other thing is that sexual violence happens to bigoted people as well. And so, you know, it is not discerning crime. But these spaces are also for you. But if you bring unacceptable beliefs that are discriminatory in nature, we will begin to work with you on your journey of recovery from trauma. But please also expect to be challenged on your prejudices, because how can you heal from trauma and build a new relationship with your trauma, because you can’t forget, and you can’t go back to life before traumatic incident or traumatic incidents. And some of us never, ever had a life before traumatic incidents. But if you have to reframe your trauma, I think it is important as part of that reframing, having a more positive relationship with it, where it becomes a story that empowers you and allows you to go and do other more beautiful things with your life, you also have to rethink your relationship with prejudice. Otherwise, you can’t really, in my view, recover from trauma and I think that’s a very important message that I am often discussing with my colleagues that in various places. Because you know, to me, therapy is political, and it isn’t always seen as that.

Mridul Wadhwa, Guilty Feminist podcast

So, in other words, the ethos Rape Crisis Centre has changed completely from supporting women who have been traumatised by being raped on their journey to regaining confidence and a sense of self-worth again to showing them how not to be bigoted, prejudiced and discriminatory against transgender people

It just beggars belief, it really does.

An organisation providing counsel for female rape victims should provide non-male-by-sex counsellors by default - (non-male being rather more specific than "female now" transwomen) - or at least offer the option. That is why employment legislation allows for this. I suspect that not many female rape victims would knowingly choose the male or transwoman options. Male victims, however, might prefer them.

If the counsellor has not revealed all of their traits (including their sex) when they applied for the job, or in the subsequent interviews, then the organisation employing them will not be able to leave them off the list of possible counsellors for a client who would prefer to avoid them. The CEO is just another employee, and however good they are at the job, they should not exempt from the parameters for their counsellors.

????????

If that is how you chose to define it.

It isn't my definition.

Not a space without men then. Not women only spaces at all. It is the actual spaces that are covered by the equality act.

I'm answering your question with respect Rosie51, although I'm also aware you're just trying to bait.

If a person, an Asian person for instance, is not comfortable speaking to a western counsellor, attempts would be made to find someone they were comfortable with. Or a gay person, if they specifically request someone gay OR someone experienced dealing with gay people, attempts would be made. I have personal experience of making a specific request, and it was met.

Not specifically a space without transwomen Galaxy. But certainly a counsellor an individual can be comfortable with. If you are assigned someone you are NOT comfortable with for whateverreason, you can change counsellor.

I said this upthread.

GagaJo So are the women who want and use the service provided in JaneJudge's link bigots for wanting to be seen and counselled by only women of black and minority ethnic origins? Do we need to re-educate them to accept white people as their counsellors?

Spaces not species

So are we in agreement then that women are entitled to species without men because that's what the whole thread is about.

Probably a range. Given she is an Asian refugee, it probably does include racism as well as trans bigotry.

What bigotry do you think the CEO is trying to reframe.

Quote me as saying that Galaxy? Because I didn't.

Women only spaces are not bigotry. Unless you think bigotry is enshrined in the equality act.

There is more than one type of bigotry, obviously. Based on gender, ethnicity, nationality, physical ability, age, size, class, occupation, level of education.

We should all expect to be challenged on bigotry. It is never appropriate.

Oh and just if anyone is a bit cross about this situation the Vancouver rape relief and womens shelter always welcome donations, they routinely receive horrific threats because of their stance of providing women only services.

Galaxy

I think you cant change sex gagajo. I think anyone who colludes in this is complicit in further traumatizing women so I wont collude in it. How can female rape victims get female only provision if the equality act is being breached. Where would you suggest they go

But that's your opinion.

Rape crisis will provide you with a counsellor you can work with. It doesn't work as counselling otherwise.

Galaxy

Expect to be challenged on your bigotry. What they mean is expect to challenged on your view of reality. In your understanding of what a man is. Do you think it's possible that the women who have been held down and had a penis forcibly inserted in them might know what a man is.

Exactly Galaxy and then in the unlikely event the rape actually gets to court you will be compelled to refer to the penis owner as "she" if that is the way they identify. Can there be anything worse than a bigoted victim eh?

I think you cant change sex gagajo. I think anyone who colludes in this is complicit in further traumatizing women so I wont collude in it. How can female rape victims get female only provision if the equality act is being breached. Where would you suggest they go

Expect to be challenged on your bigotry. What they mean is expect to challenged on your view of reality. In your understanding of what a man is. Do you think it's possible that the women who have been held down and had a penis forcibly inserted in them might know what a man is.

Galaxy

Yes men can be raped gagajo it's awful but it doesnt change the need for female only.provision as specified in the equality act.

You are deliberately misgendering her.

I haven't said rape victims should not get female only provision if that is what they want. I used to volunteer for rape crisis (many years ago). I'm aware of that.

I’ve read the Alex Drummond thing. So no surgery, and their sexual preference is women.
But they are ‘living as a woman’.
What does ‘living as a woman’ mean?
How does one do it?

This is a genuine question.

If we read the transcript of what she said, it is clear that she IS NOT saying rape victims have to accept male support. It is asking that they rethink bigotry around trans issues. NOT in a counselling environment, but in general. By all means, take issue with her opinion on this. BUT don't make it into something it isn't.

But I think the other thing is that sexual violence happens to bigoted people as well. And so, you know, it is not discerning crime. But these spaces are also for you. But if you bring unacceptable beliefs that are discriminatory in nature, we will begin to work with you on your journey of recovery from trauma. But please also expect to be challenged on your prejudices, because how can you heal from trauma and build a new relationship with your trauma, because you can’t forget, and you can’t go back to life before traumatic incident or traumatic incidents. And some of us never, ever had a life before traumatic incidents. But if you have to reframe your trauma, I think it is important as part of that reframing, having a more positive relationship with it, where it becomes a story that empowers you and allows you to go and do other more beautiful things with your life, you also have to rethink your relationship with prejudice. Otherwise, you can’t really, in my view, recover from trauma and I think that’s a very important message that I am often discussing with my colleagues that in various places. Because you know, to me, therapy is political, and it isn’t always seen as that.

Mridul Wadhwa, Guilty Feminist podcast

Yes men can be raped gagajo it's awful but it doesnt change the need for female only.provision as specified in the equality act.

I thought she was Scottish?