Mridul Wadhwa - Male CEO of Edinburgh Rape Crisis

Germanshepherdsmum

*trisher*, you have referred more than once to a trans woman ‘thinking’ they ‘are’ a woman. Can you explain how such a thought could arise in the mind of someone who has a penis and testicles? I’m talking here about trans women, as were you when you said this, not someone who thinks they ‘should’ change sex as they believe they were mis-gendered at birth.

Look up gender dysphoria.

Errrmmm - Transwomen feel that they are women, whatever their genetic makeup, and however much other people may feel that they are not exactly the same as natal women.

If raped women feel threatened by the thought of being treated by a complete male, however benign his intentions and however female he feels, how is their feeling less valid than the feeling of the transwoman? All feelings are subjective.

But this idea that there are men out there waiting to pounce on women is for the most part unfounded.

Who has posted 'this idea', or suggested that they think that men are waiting to pounce on women?

We have said that when a woman has been raped she is likely to be uncomfortable with the idea of being around men, whether or not those men identify as women.

We have also said that the majority of rapes are committed by men.

Nobody has said that they have the idea that men are waiting to pounce on women - please stop putting words into our mouths.

If someone has XY chromosomes along with male genitalia then they are a male, whatever they may think they are.

The same goes for someone with XX chromosomes, they are female.

You cannot change your chromosomes, you can self identify as whatever you like but your birth chromosomal make-up is unchangeable.

Don't mention penis and testicles Germanshepherdsmum! It shows that you have an obsession with genitalia Doh!

trisher, you have referred more than once to a trans woman ‘thinking’ they ‘are’ a woman. Can you explain how such a thought could arise in the mind of someone who has a penis and testicles? I’m talking here about trans women, as were you when you said this, not someone who thinks they ‘should’ change sex as they believe they were mis-gendered at birth.

It’s the thought that it might be a possibility that is enough to trigger the association with the trauma. Enough to stop a women seeking help a a place where it is a possibility and once more she is powerless.

And I think if she found out after that under the clothing there was a penis, she would feel violated all over again.

I think I have to accept that you really can’t understand what the trauma of rape involves.

You do have to ask yourself why.

Because they think their rights trounce anyone else's.
Because they are self-centred and only their needs matter.
Because they have an alternative agenda and it is not putting traumatised women first.

You still haven't answered my puzzle, trisher

I fully understand you have a bit of an obsession with genitalia Chewbacca most of the people I know are not aware of what is in another person's pants. As far as I know no rape victim has been forced to be counselled by anyone they felt uncomfortable with. There seems to be a perception that someone on the phone saying they couldn't guarantee the gender of a counsellor is saying there will be transgender counsellors. There may well be, but the receptionist is unlikely to know the personal history of all the counsellors (and it would be very wrong if she did) so of course she can't guarantee anything.

Groundhog Day.... over and over again.......

It is

What part of Penis and Testicles and XY chromosomes is difficult to understand?

If it was me and Fred Bloggs next door said he wanted to be Frederica , frankly I don't give a damn.

But if I had been traumatised by someone with a penis then I would not want a man who claims to be a woman deciding that I needed to go on a journey to face my perceived prejudices.

I would want to see someone who can empathise and cares about my lived experience, not their own.

Another rather petty analogy.

I had a bad experience in Thailand, robbed on the street with moderate violence.

Back home, I could not go to the Thai Restaurant. Ridiculous yes. Totally irrational, yes. Did I think I would get robbed there. No.

But my feelings of panic were very, very real. Association.

Why would anyone want to put a raped woman through much worse, just to insist on their own rights.

You do have to ask yourself why.

Did you bother to read my link upthread?

Chewbacca

Another good start would be: when a lesbian says that she doesn't want to date, or have sex with an intact transgender "woman", that her choice to say "no thanks" isn't met with howls of "you're a bigoted and transphobic".

As far as I know Chewbacca no one on this thread has said that, in fact it has been said many times that any sexual contact should be entered into by choice, and that anyone has the right to say "No"

You can’t rationalise it into numbers of men waiting to pounce, trisha.

It’s about what a raped woman feels about having a person with a penis near to her. It’s an emotional trauma.

If you’ve been badly bitten by a dog , you don’t feel safe around any dog, for a long while if ever. No use for someone to tell you very few dogs bite. You know it’s a possibility because it’s happened and the last thing you’d want is to go for help to a place that had dogs and where someone would leave you with a dog.

I’m not equating the two. Just trying to find an analogy that would help you understand why a woman who has been raped would not want to be near a penis.in any shape or form.

Your lack of comprehension and understanding is staggering trisher. How many times do you have to be told that it's NOT JUST the fear of further sexual molestation that a victim of rape feels. She DOESN'T WANT TO BE ANYWHERE NEAR A PERSON WITH A PENIS AND TESTICLES BECAUSE IT'S ONE OF THEM WHO RAPED HER IN THE FIRST PLACE AND SHE'S AFRAID OF THEM. In addition, women, who for cultural reasons, also do not want to be with a man, especially if she's already been assaulted by one.

Groundhog Day.... over and over again.......

Another good start would be: when a lesbian says that she doesn't want to date, or have sex with an intact transgender "woman", that her choice to say "no thanks" isn't met with howls of "you're a bigoted and transphobic".

Doodledog Your assertion that the vast majority of women are raped by men is absolutely true, but we should add to that that the vast majority of women are raped by men they know and have a relationship of some sort with. That doesn't make the rape any less traumatising. But this idea that there are men out there waiting to pounce on women is for the most part unfounded. Yes there may be a few but Rape Crisis says Approximately 90% of those who are raped know the perpetrator prior to the offence
Which means that 10% of rapes are committed by a stranger and that a small percentage of those will be a transwomen. Which makes you wonder why is there such a huge publicity focus on transgender and assaults to women?
You've asked the question about Transwomen campaigning before, they think they are women why should they campaign for a seperate service?
I don't understand any philosophy that says it's only one sort of rape that matters and we don't want to provide a service to rape victims unless they were born female. The only sort of system I know of that thinks one group of people more worthy of consideration than another is patriachy.

A good example would be for transgender people to try to understand what it is like for a female to be raped and to offer them the compassion of a male free environment, don’t you think Jackiest?

A good start to helping each other.

Yes, of course it would be better.

But what has actually happened in the switch of funding is that natal women no longer feel safe in Rape Centres, because there are people with penises there.

Some will say that trans women with penises pose no threat. But women who have been raped will tell you that it is difficult for them to be near even trusted and loved men, like fathers or partners. That even the thought of a penis induces feelings of horror and panic.

They need to know that a Rape Centre is a place where there will be nobody with the weapon that a penis has become to them.

Like Doodledog, I believe that the emotional trauma of rape has been brushed aside by the trans lobby. It’s effects may not be rational but are very real.

I would class understanding that as “helping each other”.

Could you provide a little more information on that Jackiest? What stereotypes would you get rid of to begin with, for example?

It may speed things up if we set a good example for others to follow. We should get rid of the stereotyping and always help everyone no matter what gender they are.

Probably so Jackiest but when one of those groups is loud, aggressive, verbally violent and needs to cancel out all of the other groups, in order to validate itself, peace and harmony will be a long time acoming.

It would be so much better if all the various genders would work together and help each other instead of bickering between themselves as to who is pinching whose funding. Every group needs help and this attitude of I am only going to help people in my group does not help society as a whole.

I mentioned before that MW wants to redirect funding towards TW services and away from women only services.
That reads as interferring with the funding to me.

You can see in a post now above on this page form the beginning of the thread that many women only services have lost funding for not being iclusive of TW.
So in fact yes TWs have changed the way we are funded.
It is not ok.
I can't understand why a woman would think this is decent behaviour.

Why can't TW campaign for their own help then? to throw this right back at you trisher
your animosity towards natal women is starting to show isn't it?

Who, why, what, where?