Latest from Mridul Wadhwa

trisher Just don't think your views can or should be imposed on others. Did you type that with a straight face, oh the irony? I find your homophobic accusations towards Mr Menno distasteful in the extreme.

And we’re back to rights. Why are a small number of trans and a small number of posters on here, demanding rights that directly override the existing rights of others?
Being gay means you are attracted to other males. Being lesbian (even a butch lesbian) means you are attracted to females.
Being heterosexual means you are attracted to the opposite sex.
Saying that doesn’t make you transphobic. Saying you don’t want to be deceived by a person hoping for a relationship isn’t transphobic either.

But when he says he doesn’t want sex with a vagina you call him biased and transphobic and use language like “a man who hates vaginas”, which he never said or implied.

I’ve listened to his speech and there was nothing in it that was transphobic. His point was that he and the majority of gay males don’t want sex with anyone with a vagina.

That only becomes an issue for trans people if they think they have a right to sex with whoever they want.

Thank God you are giving permission to gay men to pursue relationships with men.

Peaseblossom, for most people, there’s nothing wrong with you or me or him saying that.
Nothing wrong with homosexuals of either sex saying that. They’ve suffered enough already for saying they prefer someone of the same sex without having to justify their choice all over again.

Nothing at all Peaseblossom have any relationship you wish to, so can Mr Memno. Just don't think your views can or should be imposed on others.
Saying you like a penis is fine. Criticising sexual information and others' choices isn't.

I think the point I’m making is that if the make sex is what turns you on, then that’s it. That’s what does it for you. It’s what does it for me?

I’m never going to be attracted to a vagina. Neither are the vast majority of homosexuals. The point at which someone said I want you to play with my vagina would be the point where the relationship ended. It couldn’t go anywhere other than (maybe) friendship.

If it’s the way me and Mr Memmo are made why can’t we say so and live our lives by it. Why can’t we say so, before anyone even tries to start a relationship with us.

Trans is never going to be on the cards as a sexual relationship for me.

There, what’s wrong with saying that. What’s wrong with him saying that?

And thinking there shouldn't be advice on vaginas in a sexual health booklet for men is nothing to do with finding them sexually attractive.

Mr Memno can think whatever he likes Rosie51
That is nothing to do with feminists who think transmen are women but apparently the wrong sort of women.

trisher
The issue seems to be that in entering into relationship the gender someone openly displays should in some way relate to the gentalia they possess and that if they don't display the correct gentalia they are in some way deceiving the other person. Most people are going to assume that someone presenting as either a man or a woman has the genitalia that matches that sex. It is absurd to think otherwise since you tell us transpeople are a tiny percentage of the population, so most people will have matching genitalia.

Which presumably means he would be happy with a fully transitioned transman, what a strange thing to say. You do realise that it isn't a proper penis but an area of fat usually taken from the forearm don't you? Why do presume to know so much about other people's preferences and acceptabilities?

of a man who hates vaginas no he doesn't "hate" vaginas, he just doesn't find them sexually attractive. I don't find vaginas sexually attractive either, it doesn't mean I hate them, I'm rather fond of my own. Mr Menno is actually a supporter of women and believes in their sex based rights, unlike so many transpeople.

Peasblossom I have consistently said that any relationship should be consensual. I don't think the issue here is consent at all. The issue seems to be that in entering into relationship the gender someone openly displays should in some way relate to the gentalia they possess and that if they don't display the correct gentalia they are in some way deceiving the other person.
Apparently men with penile disfunction are expected to be open with that fact when they start a relationship and some may be. That isn't the point the point is that Mr Memno judges his relationships on the presence of a penis. Which presumably means he would be happy with a fully transitioned transman, but not a man who had any problems.

What makes this even weirder and the logic of the anti-trans lobby so questionable is that the people who claim to be feminists are here questioning the rights of people they consider women to live their lives as they wish and supporting the views of a man who hates vaginas. If it wasn't for the questionable and highly dangerous organisations who choose to fund and exploit this sort of prejudice I'd actually be laughing my hat off.
As it is I just try to keep making the same point, prejudice never stops at one level of censorship. Human rights are universal and they have no hierarchy anyone who tells you, you are in danger of losing yours, because someone else's are being supported is lying and you'd better watch out because yours could be next.

“You can’t always know what features someone has when you enter into a relationship”

Actually, if we’re talking about a sexual relationship, I think the sex of the person you’re attracted to is pretty much the most important thing.

I mean, I’m attracted to males and the male body. That’s the bottom line. No matter how much I had come to love somebody for their personality, there’s no way I could feel sexually attracted to them if they were to suddenly reveal themselves as female. I love my female friends very much but sex? That’s never going to happen.

Now trisher would it be acceptable for me to say no, at that point of revelation? Of course it would. Otherwise it would be sex forced on someone who didn’t want it.

So why is it wrong for me or a gay person to say no right at the start? To say , if you’re the wrong sex for me, this is never going to happen and I shouldn’t be forced into it by what you want.

Nobody has the right to even begin a sexual relationship with someone against their will. I have the right to say no to anyone.

Or do I?

trisher, you are hilarious! If you are gay or lesbian, you don’t have to feel threatened by a trans person for it to be wrong.
It’s misleading and disappointing.
It’s also strange to think that a transman (who is really a woman) couldn’t have just stayed as a woman if a relationship with a man is what is desired. Or likewise with a transwoman and a lesbian.
It’s called heterosexual.
It’s only when compulsion for a G or L to accept a trans or claims of transism when the G or L person refuses advances that it becomes more serious.
I await your next scenario.

The homophobia is off the scale. Bloody right gay men have a bias against transmen in terms of sexual partners.

If a man has a non-functioning penis because of medical problems or loses his gentalia in an accident I expect he would tell a prospective sexual partner about this, fairly early on, and not leave it as a surprise later on.
Why would anyone think he had ceased to be a man?

Indeed, a gay man is unlikely to feel threatened by a transman but could be mightily pissed off by the pretence.

A lesbian, on the other hand, could feel very threatened by a male who has led her to believe he is a female.

a butch lesbian saying she feels unwelcome and has been threatened in ladies loos is ignored
I'm sorry if I missed this - was it mentioned in this thread?

trisher

I wouldn't really expect an answer Rosie51 I was simply showing the ridiculous and unsupportable nature of such beliefs because it is obvious that you can't always know exactly what features someone has when you enter into a relationship.
Some gay people have fixed ideas about sex and relationships, they don't believe for example that anyone can be bi-sexual and label them as repressed homosexuals.
I don't think any sort of restriction should be put on any adult consensual relationship. And Mr Memno's bias against trans men is just that, bias

trisher I agree adult consensual relationships are entirely the domain of those involved.

What he did say is that he objects to the transgender notion that homosexuality is about gender attraction when the breakdown of the word literally means same sex. Sex and gender are quite different, a point transgender people seem to agree with when they say their gender does not match their sexed body. I notice you don't address this point I made. I think you'll find Mr Menno's objection is not to transmen per se but that a sexual relationship with one would not be a homosexual relationship, but a heterosexual one. A vulva is a vulva, why would it be reasonable that a vulva on a woman is unattractive sexually to a gay man, but suddenly he should delight in a vulva on somebody who identifies as a transman? . You use the word bias, but who can help what sex they're attracted to, or are you saying homosexual people can learn to respond to the opposite sex body? That would surely indicate someone was bisexual, not homosexual?
How strange, I know quite a few homosexual people, I've never heard one deny bi-sexuality as a normal sexuality. Can you link to research that has looked into this?

I wouldn't really expect an answer Rosie51 I was simply showing the ridiculous and unsupportable nature of such beliefs because it is obvious that you can't always know exactly what features someone has when you enter into a relationship.
Some gay people have fixed ideas about sex and relationships, they don't believe for example that anyone can be bi-sexual and label them as repressed homosexuals.
I don't think any sort of restriction should be put on any adult consensual relationship. And Mr Memno's bias against trans men is just that, bias

If a man has a non-functioning penis because of medical problems or loses his gentalia in an accident does he in Mr Memno's opinion cease to be a man? I think you'd be better asking Mr Menno that trisher, it's unlikely any of us are in a position to answer for him with any degree of accuracy.
What he did say is that he objects to the transgender notion that homosexuality is about gender attraction when the breakdown of the word literally means same sex. Sex and gender are quite different, a point transgender people seem to agree with when they say their gender does not match their sexed body.

Isn't it funny how a butch lesbian saying she feels unwelcome and has been threatened in ladies loos is ignored but a gay man saying transmen aren't men is seen as being someone whose opinion is valued?
If he has been forced to have sex with anyone it is wrong, but what I think he actually said is that he wanted to find a penis inside a man's pants. Which basically means he is disappointed by transmen but not threatened. I wonder how far should we carry such disappointment? If a man has a non-functioning penis because of medical problems or loses his gentalia in an accident does he in Mr Memno's opinion cease to be a man? Isn't disappointment just another term for bias?

trisher wrote "It is wrong for anyone to dictate to anyone else who they should have sexual relationships with."
Yet that is what is happening, in the name of trans inclusion, as evidenced by Mr Menno.

I suspect that is not happening because it could be dangerous for a transman (female) to do.
If it does happen, it will not have the level of intimidation that is conveyed by a transwoman (male) stripping off among women in a supposedly single-sex situation.

Thanks Rosie51. Exactly that.

I think Mollygo may be asking for evidence of how many transmen are insisting on going into male changing rooms, stripping naked and revealing that they have a vulva not a penis. It's not something we hear about but logically should be happening.

Mollygo sorry, I don't understand what you are asking.

I don't judge anyone's sexual preferences. They are simply that personal preferences. It is wrong for anyone to dictate to anyone else who they should have sexual relationships with.
To quote Mrs Patrick Campbell Does it really matter what these affectionate people do — so long as they don’t do it in the streets and frighten the horses!^