I’m entitled to my opinion

Gawd! I think this thread is a wolf in sheepskin clothing.

Germanshepherdsmum

Frequently I find not so much the opinion, but the way in which it is expressed, problematic. Some posters seem to be deliberately nasty and aggressive, and a response, no matter how politely couched, provokes a stream of vitriol.

Yes this is 'fact' not opinion.?

Ah yes Alegrias1 but as we can’t see each other on here you don’t KNOW that some posters are smiling, do you?!!

That would just be your opinion, wouldn’t it ?!

I can't honestly say I've never said it but I know what you mean.

People may have the right to individual liberty (freedom of speech is the US) and expressing their views but some demographics are protected by law (that's where tolerance and respect come in).

No one is entitled to use any platform belonging to others to express their opinions though and they can be moderated for doing so.

Claiming to be in possession of 'the facts' is a recognised way of seizing the agenda and manipulating an argument. Journalists and politicians do it all the time. It can seem very reasonable to say 'I am not going to comment until I have seen the facts', when 'the facts' are matters of opinion too. Scientists, historians and academics of all stripes argue over what are facts and what are not.

Yes, there are some (seemingly) immutable facts, which have been proved to be so, but a quick glance through history shows that what once were 'facts' are no longer seen as such, so it doesn't pay to be complacent. Flat Earth or the Sun moving round the Earth are obvious examples, but others might be Richard 111 having a hunchback, or that cholera was contracted by breathing 'bad air'.

I think the 'entitled to my opinion' defence is a copout, really. It is a way of saying that whatever someone says will not be listened to, and that it's a waste of time arguing.

Also, some opinions are far more valuable than others. If I have a nasty rash or an unexplained pain I would prefer the opinion of a doctor to that of my hairdresser, but I wouldn't take the doctor's advice on which shampoo to use, or let her colour my hair. Everyone may be entitled to an opinion, but that doesn't mean that all opinions are equal.

Germanshepherdsmum
You could be more right if you tried ?

Germanshepherdsmum

Frequently I find not so much the opinion, but the way in which it is expressed, problematic. Some posters seem to be deliberately nasty and aggressive, and a response, no matter how politely couched, provokes a stream of vitriol.

On the other hand, some posters will smile and smile and be a villain.

?Germanshepherd

Germanshepherdsmum

Frequently I find not so much the opinion, but the way in which it is expressed, problematic. Some posters seem to be deliberately nasty and aggressive, and a response, no matter how politely couched, provokes a stream of vitriol.

??????

Alegrias1 …I don’t know what’s to be done or said about people whose beliefs or interpretation of the facts differ.
Nothing I suppose.
Just be glad that Donald Trump and similar aren’t running the show,
Smile politely and move on?
People who won’t have the covid vaccines and their reasons for refusing are the most difficult for me to deal with personally at the moment.
They are not all victims of misinformation and conspiracy theories and many are just genuinely afraid of what the vaccine does or could do.
I am powerless to counter their anxiety because we all know so little about it in reality ?

Frequently I find not so much the opinion, but the way in which it is expressed, problematic. Some posters seem to be deliberately nasty and aggressive, and a response, no matter how politely couched, provokes a stream of vitriol.

People are entitled to have an opinion on anything - however , if that opinion is revolting or abhorrent to others, then they can hardly complain if they are called out on those views. Freedom of speech is something we often take for granted in this country, but it has to be remembered that with free speech comes responsibilities and potential consequences.

But I think Alegriaswas quite right to use the number of covid cases as a fact, that is not really political.
Comparing our rise in cases with other countries would be political.

James O’Brien often refers to something called ‘false equivalence’; which I suppose could be a relative of Gove’s assertion that we are all sick of ‘experts’.

For example, on Newsnight, you might see the Governor of the Bank of England debating with Andrea Leadsome.

So, you may be entitled to your opinion, but it might not necessarily be a valid one.

A bit like Orwell’s some are more equal than others

Climate change deniers fall into two camps, I think, those that say that the climate is not really changing, just going through cycles, and others who say that although the climate is changing the actions of human beings have not caused it to happen.

What about things that are not political (I probably shouldn't have used political examples )

For instance, climate change deniers, or people who say that the Theory of Evolution is "just a theory" and doesn't really describe the way the world works?

Do 'facts' differ depending on one's source of discovery?

Sometimes it's like the story of the blind men and the elephant. All are right, they just have different realities based on their experience.

“Some recollections may vary” perhaps?

I agree with what you say about facts Alegrias. But sometimes the background events that led up to the facts are up for opinion.

We should perhaps say ‘we are where we are’ and move on, using the facts as they are today. But that doesn’t take into account people’s emotions. And annoyance!

There are some revolting opinions that I wouldn’t like to see or hear expressed. For example, people who believe that racism or violence to women are acceptable behaviour. I’m not sure that completely free speech is possible in a civilised society.

Facts are indisputable but why those facts have come about is open to conjecture.

So what should be said instead?
to my way of thinking .....
my gut instinct is .....
if you ask me .....
in my judgment .......
as I see it ..........
etc.
or just keep quiet?

Are we entitled to our opinion even if it denies reality?

I suppose, as long as we enjoy freedom of speech, the answer has to be yes. But that's just my opinion and may not be a fact!

I agree Ilovecheese. It's not difficult to find facts and data to support a particular point of view.

There are discussions where there's little or no factual evidence, for example a discussion about a personal experience or problem.

We're all entitled to our own opinion and I don't have a problem with that unless that opinion is challenged with personal insults and sneers.

What Ilovecheeese says.
Saying that something is happening ( say the petrol ‘shortage’ which didn’t last long)? is one thing, giving our opinions of the reasons behind it is another, and why shouldn’t anyone not be allowed their opinion?
People disagree with the opinions of others all the time, or agree as the case may be.