Staying on topic- threads in general

I think we all had the same parents ?.

Elegran oh yes I remember that one! Or the guilt trip one "A blind man would like to see it"

Doodledog

FarNorth

Yet you fail to have sympathy with the many many people who must not have had the same advantages and who now are caused to quiver by very little.

Au contraire, FarNorth. I understand my privilege, and recognise that life can be more difficult for those who didn't have the words 'Who do you think you are?' or 'The world doesn't revolve around you!' as a background refrain to their childhoods.

But I would like it to be known that my tacit acceptance of their quivering is in no way giving approval to atrocities of any description that may have led them to this pass.

You missed one, Doodledog. "Who is going to look at you?" when you were agonising about appearing in public with a pleuch (spot) on your face.

Before the humour police descend, batons drawn, I feel the need to say that I don't think that over-indulged childhoods causes people to feel the need to transition (I couldn't begin to hazard a guess on that one). My comments were not directed at them, but at those, trans or otherwise, who want to compel others to do things (in this case declare pronouns) to satisfy their wishes. I do see that as self-indulgence or control freakery, but those traits are not exclusive to transpeople.

Doodledog I was talking to my sister this morning and she paused to say to one granddaughter, “You’ll just have to wait till I’ve finished speaking. The world doesn’t revolve around you!”
We also had the two sentences you mentioned as we grew up. Obviously they are still in use.??

‘Stroppy old bat’ Doodledog! I love it! Thank you for a good laugh?

FarNorth

Yet you fail to have sympathy with the many many people who must not have had the same advantages and who now are caused to quiver by very little.

Au contraire, FarNorth. I understand my privilege, and recognise that life can be more difficult for those who didn't have the words 'Who do you think you are?' or 'The world doesn't revolve around you!' as a background refrain to their childhoods.

But I would like it to be known that my tacit acceptance of their quivering is in no way giving approval to atrocities of any description that may have led them to this pass.

I’ve enjoyed the recent posts from Rosie, Chewbacca, doodle and far north - really brighter another grey, windy, wet and miserable morning here in Manchester.

Yet you fail to have sympathy with the many many people who must not have had the same advantages and who now are caused to quiver by very little.

Why thank you, Rosie!

The praise should not go just to me, however.

I would like to thank all the people who failed to pander to my whims, and refused to make me the centre of the universe for equipping me with the rhino hide that allows me to stand up to misgendering with humour and devil-may-care panache.

I wouldn't be the stroppy old bat I am today without them.

Well I'd just like to say I think you're stunning and brave Doodledog Misgendered and lived to tell the tale.........

I'm the same, Chewbacca, in that my name makes nothing clear. I have never bothered to do anything about it, as it doesn't bother me. In fact I quite like seeing the occasional change in attitude when someone is expecting to meet a man at a meeting and finds that it's with me. I'm neither upset nor offended, though - why would I be?

Funnily enough, I am in the process of setting up a group outside of work - nothing to do with my profession, and not remotely gender-based - more of a special interest group.

I never thought about my email address, but after I'd done the background stuff with the National HQ they sent round an email to potential members saying 'This is Doodledog's email, and I'm sure he will have some interesting points for discussion at the meeting'. I was half tempted to use my full name in the next message from me (Doodlina Dog, fact fans), but it seemed like it would be making a political statement, so I just left it.

The sky didn't fall in, or anything - it was exactly as though it didn't matter.

Absolutely nothing Chewbacca absolutely nothing ???

Why ever not Rosie51? What could possibly go wrong?

Chewbacca why stop at religion, covid beliefs, Brexit status......people could indicate other allegiances, football team, omnivore, veggie or vegan status........I'm on a roll now how about car or plane use or not, for or against Insulate Britain.... the possibilities are endless and everyone would know the touchy subjects to be avoided where there were differences and we'd all feel 'safer'.

Oh I like the idea of a slogan FarNorth

I do wonder at the people that sign these letters saying they feel unsafe and want 'offenders' sacked or cancelled, do they not feel embarrassed to proclaim themselves bullying wimps? There's that Scottish actor who loves to get the police onto women, especially if they've tweeted an image of ribbons in suffragette colours. He doesn't feel safe because we all know how dangerous ribbons are, yet thinks penises in women's prisons and refuges and spas are totally OK.

My name is one that is both a male and a female name (think Chris but it's not), so at the foot of my work email it has "Chris Chewbacca" - no way of knowing what sex/gender I am. I receive just as many emails addressed to Mr Chewbacca as I do to Ms Chewbacca and it bothers me not one jot - why would it? The only time it comes up for discussion is when an email is followed up by a telephone conversation! And then it's just laughed about, vague apologies made and accepted and it's back to business. I have never, after almost 70 years of having my name, ever thought to take offence. In fact, when my closest friend christened one of her sons with my name, I was deeply flattered!

Perhaps people could start adding a short slogan of their choice.
That could be fun!

I'm really gobsmacked at the large numbers of people who are asking for this stuff, signing letters saying they feel 'unsafe' (did they sign with pronouns, I wonder), demanding sacking of people who don't go along with it etc.
How will they cope when it all collapses around them (as I very much hope it will)?

There is absolutely no reason for them to add these pronouns to their email signature apart from to make a clear political statement on their position on a very divisive issue. You wouldn't expect to see anyone stating their position on Brexit in their email signatures, with "Leave" or "Remain" added under their contact details. Or people stating "Christ is Lord" or "Allahu Akbar". Or "Vaccinate now" or "Lift lockdown" added. So why are personal pronouns required?

This is what I'm asking - in fact any reasons behind asking all seem dubious to me, and the consequences could be dangerous. But apparently that makes me complicit in atrocities such as FGM, and goodness knows what else.

What is the supposed point of pronouns in email signatures?
Are all correspondents supposed to remember each other's pronouns, in case they need to mention someone, in 3rd person, in an email to someone else?
I'm sure everyone has managed to cope, up until now, with not knowing the sex or gender identity of Professor J Smith who has emailed them.

I would still question why we need to know the sex, Molly. Unless we are going back to when the word of a woman was seen as worth less than that of a man, I don't know how knowing whether someone is male or female is remotely relevant, and more than knowing which gender pronoun they prefer.

Emails are addressed to Dear X, and the only pronoun used to the recipient is 'you'. Under what circumstances would the writer address them as 'they' (or he/she)?

To me, asking for a gender pronoun is akin to asking people to declare their sexuality or their race or religion, and nobody would suggest that that would be appropriate, surely?

Doodledog the answer is that, except in the circumstances you mentioned, it shouldn’t matter.
If those who wish to be known as ‘they’ want to put that then ‘they’ should be allowed to do so, but why should anyone else have to change their normal signature to suit the ‘theys’.
If there are those saying we are entitled to know the sex of the person emailing, then I’d say OK, but it has to include everyone,
so
Females must indicate F
Males- must add M
TW - must add TW
TM- must add TM
Non-Binary must add NB
those who like to flit from one gender to another could add GFW with the date or GFM with the date so recipients would know what to expect on that day.
We could then use he and she for the first two and they for the others. Under those circumstances I’d be happy to indicate on my emails.
I suspect that would not be acceptable to all TP etc, but maybe trisher would know more about that.