M&S diversity officers give staff pronoun badges……. a step too far?

kircubbin2000

It would have been useful this morning. No idea who served me this morning as his/her badge was covered up . A rainbow mask,lots of jewellery and studs,short styled hair but quite a husky voice.

But did you need to know? Did you just say thank you?

It would have been useful this morning. No idea who served me this morning as his/her badge was covered up . A rainbow mask,lots of jewellery and studs,short styled hair but quite a husky voice.

GrannyMacawell

Once you accept that David's pronouns are her\she how are you going to ask her to leave the womans communal changing room? You have already accepted that she is a woman.

This is part of the problem. On their own, it might seem as though pronouns are trivial things that aren't worth getting hung up about, and as I've said, it seems to me that a lot of women have agreed for some time to use ones that don't sit well with them, in order to be accommodating, and to 'be kind', because of female socialisation.

But put pronouns into a bigger picture, and it's clear that actually they are not trivial at all. They are an acceptance that a man can 'become' a woman, and that women as we know them (us) don't exist. We've already seen on this thread that those who support the erasure of women don't even know what a woman is, and worse, they don't think it's important.

You are a woman if you 'just know' you are one, without knowing what it is that you know. If you can also insist on being called 'she', and accuse anyone who gets that wrong (perhaps on account of your beard, your deep voice and male-pattern baldness) of misgendering, and use your 'female' status to access places where women of the adult human female variety are alone and potentially vulnerable (hospital wards, prison wings and so on) you are going to be able, should you so wish, to subject women to significant trauma, particularly if you have a record of sexual assault.

Is it really any wonder that so many of the women who were initially willing to go along with this are now saying that enough's enough?

(and thank you, NanKate ?)

Well Chewbacca, look at the name of the poster who asked the question…

Once you accept that David's pronouns are her\she how are you going to ask her to leave the womans communal changing room? You have already accepted that she is a woman.

True enough GSM, especially if they're called Chris.

Well at least you know what pronouns they prefer when complaining that they’ve nicked all your money/stolen your identity.?

Personally, when giving my details to anyone, I always check what it says on their badge! You can't go far wrong with what it says on a badge!

I’m glad to see you on this thread Doodledog. The voice of sanity IMO ?

Germanshepherdsmum

Business yes Rosie. Unavoidable. But personal banking details - never.

We shall agree to differ our business account has far more money in it than any personal account lol
I did just check with my husband who has been in financial services for 40 years

This has taken an unusual turn .

Business yes Rosie. Unavoidable. But personal banking details - never.

Germanshepherdsmum

Replying to Crispin at 15.35 Doodledog. Though a strange question on this thread. Unless it was about a refund from M&S?. Alternatively, the thread has driven us mad.

Ah, I see. Oh well, it makes as much sense as many of the posts on the thread?

Germanshepherdsmum

But if they have your name (maybe first name not just an initial) and if it’s for a refund very likely your address…. It’s usually businesses which routinely give bank details for paying invoices.

Yes we routinely give out our sort code and account number for our business there’s nothing I can think of that anyone could do with this information other than pay money into our account

Replying to Crispin at 15.35 Doodledog. Though a strange question on this thread. Unless it was about a refund from M&S?. Alternatively, the thread has driven us mad.

But if they have your name (maybe first name not just an initial) and if it’s for a refund very likely your address…. It’s usually businesses which routinely give bank details for paying invoices.

Not really a lot you can do with a sort code and bank account number they are given out regularly for people paying bills and on a cheque if you use that method so not really secret
Now the details from your debit card are totally a different thing

What are you all on about??

Not sure I would necessarily do that Rosie. Too much information, in fact everything a fraudster needs. How was the purchase originally paid for? If by card then the refund should be automatically made to the card.

Crispin83

Is it safe to give a company your bank details for a refund

You probably posted under the wrong subject but you can give your sort code and account number for a refund

Is it safe to give a company your bank details for a refund

I will let you know if I ever see a dragon

Do you need to see one to know they are there? I thought that just accepting that they do is 'simple'.

trisher, why would I be shocked by the word 'arse'? I am not the one making assumptions there. I knew you would come back with that - at least this time you haven't mentioned your masculine friend who is often mistaken for a man, so should be thankful for small mercies I suppose.

Yes, I was using generalisations, which is why I put 'generally' in brackets. If you read the post before deciding what you assume I've said you would have seen that.

On the whole, men are stronger than women. On the whole, men are socialised to be dominant and women are not. Of course that does not always apply - as I keep saying, gender roles are simply learnt, not innate - but it is often the case.

If you don't believe in gender socialisation, and you accept that sex and gender are different, what passes for your argument holds barely any water at all.

When male-bodied people have been socialised in a male way, which they almost exclusively will have been by the time they start to 'identify as female', the gender roles that shaped their upbringing are likely to remain. This means that there are situations where stronger, testosterone-fuelled people who have been socialised to be dominant are able to say, in the name of equality and diversity, that they are the same as (generally) smaller, weaker people who have been socialised to 'be nice', to make allowances and to step aside to make room for others, and expect to have this believed 'just because'.
Sorry any number of transpeople will tell you they knew they were in the wrong body from a very early age. The fact that they were denied the right to change gender until later in life really isn't their fault. As for "smaller. weaker people being socialised to be "nice". I take it you mean females. I know some pretty outspoken women who would tell you you were talking out your arse (and no doubt you would be shocked by that). Not all men are dominant, not all women are nice. You are talking in stereotypes and applying those ideas to exceptions.

Doodledog

*I accept trans people feel how they feel and there is a reason why they exist that will be found so logically that will be the foundation of all my answers*

Do you think that dragons exist and that a reason why they exist will be found, too?

I'm struggling with the next bit about how that 'logically' equates to anything, though .

Lol that was a daft thing to say

I will let you know if I ever see a dragon