Are we being deliberately panicked to stop us seeing what is happening

But it's not just the UK who are putting restrictions in place. Most countries are reacting. Countries in Europe have mandatory vaccination.

So I'm not sure how this can be down to our government over reacting.

It's kind of sad that I believe South Africa more, much more, than my own government (no disrespect to SA).

Just in the news tonight - S.A. saying Omicron is very much weaker than the Delta variant.

I think we are panicking over here.

That Dr Susan seemed worried and it worried me but I still have 3 days left at work so I am going to pretend I didn't see it

Flu is.

OK Sir Desmond Swayne but you cannot make statements like that because 5 people a day in the UK sadly die in traffic accidents. Official Covid deaths numbers per day is 150.......

Covid is transmitted through the air, road traffic accidents are not.

Not my area of expertise.

However Omicron did not evolve from Delta. It evolved in parallel from the original coronavirus.

Pepper59

I am not a scientist but I wondered if the reason for the panic was that they may be concerned a new variant appears from this one. I don't know for sure, it's just a thought. Mind you are South Africa's statistics accurate? It's a country I know nothing about. Perhaps someone in the know could comment. Mind you, if the hospitals become full, especially at this time of year, then that would be a worry. What I don't know is, how dangerous is this Omicrom?

I think that you raise a really important point.

If this highly infectious variant mutates into one that is equally infectious and also has a high death rate, we could really be in the deep stuff!

A lot of the panic is caused by the media headlines.

Yes, but which scientists. Yesterday the London School of Tropical Medecine were touting their figures with up to 75,000 deaths was it? Yet their statistics have been consistently alarmist and proven wrong, again and again and again.

But nobody knows how many cases (not deaths) per day there would have been if we hadn't had restrictions. They could have been correct.

Franbern

25Avalon

It’s not just Johnson though is it? Scientists are warning us too. Until time passes and we have more statistics and data better be safe than sorry.

The same scientists who warned us of 100,00 covid cases a day by end of August 2021???

... which there might very well have been if mitigations hadn't been put in place. We'll never know.

The pandemic is most certainly NOT over ! Franbern you write in the past tense, saying the ' pandemic was dreadful' The pandemic us still dreadful and still very much here!! I am getting out and about but take great care knowing full well we are in the midst of infection!! Please take care and don't assume it's all over - it is not !!!

As I said above, if we do not know the figures for cases, hospitalisations and deaths divided by vaccinated and non-vaccinated, how can we know whether the new variant is really a threat for the vaccinated or just the unvaccinated.

We do know M0nica. I posted it above.

But we won't know the impact of Omicron for a few weeks yet because hospitalisations and deaths are lag indictors.

Just a bit of defence for the London School of Tropical Medicine.

If I remember correctly their model had an absolute maximum of 75,000 deaths based on no mitigations at all and assumptions about the severity of the virus being equal to that of delta. There were a range of predictions but the one that the press have jumped on is the worst one, of course.

25Avalon It’s not just Johnson though is it? Scientists are warning us too.

Yes, but which scientists. Yesterday the London School of Tropical Medecine were touting their figures with up to 75,000 deaths was it? Yet their statistics have been consistently alarmist and proven wrong, again and again and again.

The science we are meant to follow changes depending on the message the government it trying to pedal and I am not aware of one scientific source that has been consistently, if not accurate, even in the same ball park.

As I said above, if we do not know the figures for cases, hospitalisations and deaths divided by vaccinated and non-vaccinated, how can we know whether the new variant is really a threat for the vaccinated or just the unvaccinated.

I have just been listening Sir Desmond Swayne addressing the Commons in today's debate. Arch-Right winger that he is, I never thought I would ever have sympathy with anything he said or did, the number of times I have been tempted to throw my shoe at the radio when listening to him, but today I was in almost complete agreement with him.

Pammie1

What green paper are u referring to.. scary details

Avalon Yes exactly.
Johnson has to go on the scientific ‘thoughts’ when he and the government decide what to do, mitigated slightly by what the mental health of the country would be ( lockdowns etc) and economic realities and job losses.
If he rode roughshod over the advice and many more lives were lost through that, he would rightly be facing the anger of the populace.
Hopefully the new variant will have much milder symptoms because the way it’s going ( in London anyway) the number of Omicron infections are really high in such a short time.

M0nica

I would like to see the figures for hospitalisations and deaths divided between those who were vaccinated and those who weren't.

Easy ones first; here you go.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1039677/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_49.pdf

25Avalon

It’s not just Johnson though is it? Scientists are warning us too. Until time passes and we have more statistics and data better be safe than sorry.

The same scientists who warned us of 100,00 covid cases a day by end of August 2021???

GrandmaTrisha I'm so sorry to hear of your worries about your DH. Mine had bypass surgery before the pandemic, and that was worrying enough (although the number of people we spoke to who said "Oh, I had that 20 years ago" was encouraging!) and so I can't imagine how awful this is for you and your DH. I'm sending you hugs and very best wishes.

I agree, Covid is diverting attention to things that are going on and being slipped in under the radar. As well as the examples you’ve given there are changes to the judicial review system allowing MP’s to effectively overrule the judiciary, changes to the human rights act which will have far reaching effects. Most NHS services are much harder to access and unless directly affected it seems most people are unaware of exactly what’s happening beyond not being able to see a GP. The ambulance service is in permanent crisis because of the knock on effects of hospital shortages. On a personal level, a family member had a fall last week and waited for nearly six hours for an ambulance, lying on her kitchen floor with a broken hip. What happened to the well equipped Nightingale hospitals set up to cope with Covid and take the strain ? It would seem they have the equipment but not the staff to operate them, so what was the point ?

As a disabled person, one of the things that concerns me is the green paper that’s been quietly drawn up on yet more draconian reform of disability benefits. Among other proposals there are long term plans to merge personal independence payment (PIP) with Universal Credit, for example. This would effectively mean that PIP is scrapped - those with a low incomes or on contribution based benefits who don’t qualify for UC, will no longer be eligible. They will lose the extra support and for many it will mean the loss of the motability cars that enable them to work and socialise. The consequences are enormous and whereas the ending of disability living allowance and roll out of PIP was well publicised, there is almost nothing said about this - many of the disability charities and organisations with whom the government is supposed to consult are also unaware of what’s being proposed. I think it was Jo Moore - an adviser to Tony Blair who sent that infamous 9/11 email saying it was a good day to get out anything they wanted to ‘bury’. Time will tell how much was buried during Covid.

They have realised that to get most of us vaccinated voluntarily they do have to 'shout'. Those under about 55/60 do not have the thankful attitude, and belief in, the goodness of our health service the old have - we remember or had family who remembered not being able to get ANY care without paying upfront. There's no panic but to maintain the day to day health system by not having too many covid admissions, vaccination is a must.

I think Boris and his Ministers have messed up in all sorts of ways but I also think the Omicron variant is potentially a serious threat, not only to individuals but also by overwhelming the NHS. The science indicates a booster is necessary to develop more protection and Boris's call to get one is highly appropriate. The small numbers can easily become very big numbers as it doubles every 2/3 days. It is clearly highly infectious.

My DH is currently in hospital awaiting heart bypass surgery. He’s already been in there four weeks awaiting a bed in the nearby hospital where these operations take place.

This hospital however, is the major hospital in our area for lung function’ issues and there are no beds available. Nor can anyone give us any idea of when one will become free.

DD husband faces the prospect of spending Christmas in hospital and me spending it alone for the first time in our 45 years of marriage. We are both triple jabbed but I am frightened to death of what’s being reported daily. ?

No we are not being deliberately panicked - if like me you are extremely vulnerable due to compromised immunity or have lost loved ones, friends, neighbours and colleagues to COVID you know how serious this can be.

I never fully believe what I read in the press. Its designed to sell papers so sensationalises everything including figures affected, stories from 'reliable' sources, and even made up facts. If you read about a serious car pile up crash in 4 different papers numbers of injured are rarely the same.
I think we need to remember that nice happy stories of success rarely make headlines to sell papers. I liken reading the press to reading the daily comic.