Patriotism - what do you think about it ?

Oooh ? get in there. ?

vegansrock

So should Gay Pride be forced to change their name?

So be warned GNs We must never feel proud of our grandchildren, of our achievements, of a cake that’s turned out well, of the fact that your dog has learnt to sit after all your encouragement or of your “because pride implies you feel a superiority”.
I expect you’re proud of that post, vegansrock. Go girl!

Sadly I think the Bible regards pride as a sin and this has spilled over into other areas. There is if course a puffed up, boastful pride which is despicable, but a quiet, satisfied, even comforting, pride in one's own country should not imply superiority or haughtiness.
If we didn't take pride in our nation, maybe expectations would lower and there wouldn't be much left to aspire to?

People like the familiar so naturally think their own home is best. I’m sure if you asked the same question of a French person most would say the same - they’d say they had the best food, wine, beaches, weather, and maybe they’d be right, but you’d still prefer your own home- that’s fine- but pride implies you feel a superiority to any other nation.

I find it very sad to read all these negative comments from some posters, all these assertions implying that if we say we are patriotic, proud of our nationality and country, that is somehow wrong, or evidence of xenophobia.

Well I am willing to stand up and be counted. I love being British. I love my country for all its faults, and of course which country has no faults?

I am reasonably widely travelled.
We’ve had some wonderful holidays, where we’ve enjoyed the different cultures, food, history and experiences generally, but would I want to live anywhere else? No.

Interestingly on our travels we have found a huge amount of interest in the UK from various countries. We live near Windsor, so of course the castle and the Royal family is discussed a lot, and I suspect wherever we may have lived here, there would be some discussion about it from folk how had stayed nearby.

vegansrock

Flags, national anthems, saints - what is there to be “proud” of? It’s all a load of made up nonsense like giving people titles and endowing them with largesse. I’m not proud to be British it’s not an achievement - just part of my own identity . I like where I live and my family and neighbours but there are things don’t like - litter, crime, inequality , destruction of nature- I’d hate those things where ever in the world they they were.

I'm with you, vegansrock.

"I still call Australia Home" is another song sung beautifully by the Morriston Orpheus choir, who were on the same flight as myself travelling home from their tour in Australia.
They all kindly sang on the flight when we were delayed at Frankfurt for a couple of hours---it was lovely.

It’s the National anthem not the English anthem

Lesley60

I wonder if William will change the national anthem when he’s king, he’s more modern and I think it should be more uplifting and not so stuffy and boring

It might be a good time to do it but we can’t even get agreement on GN about what it should be instead. Perhaps we should have a competition where English composers write a new one and those who consider themselves English vote on it.

I wonder if William will change the national anthem when he’s king, he’s more modern and I think it should be more uplifting and not so stuffy and boring

I have never thought of myself as British, I am Welsh, the Union Jack means nothing to me, it combines England, Scotland and Ireland flags

nadateturbe

When I listen to the Seekers sing I Am Australian I think how wonderful it must be to be so proud of your country and I quite envy them. I love my country but there are things I'm not proud of. Doesn't mean I should leave.

Yes, this would be a better national anthem for Australia.

Advance Australia Fair is not liked by all. My Australian son in law hates it.

When I listen to the Seekers sing I Am Australian I think how wonderful it must be to be so proud of your country and I quite envy them. I love my country but there are things I'm not proud of. Doesn't mean I should leave.

Flags, national anthems, saints - what is there to be “proud” of? It’s all a load of made up nonsense like giving people titles and endowing them with largesse. I’m not proud to be British it’s not an achievement - just part of my own identity . I like where I live and my family and neighbours but there are things don’t like - litter, crime, inequality , destruction of nature- I’d hate those things where ever in the world they they were.

but scotland and wales had been subsumed into england by the time the empire was thrusting around the world.
their languages were not recognised or encouraged; the only parliament was in england. ditto for ireland.
they were an underclass, who maybe tried to mitigate that by joining in subjugating other places races, to give them a step up.
to say that they were part of it because it was called the british empire is contentious.
a bit like claiming victoria was empress of india
the whole thing is very complex.
as for being proud of being british, or english.
what exactly are you proud of.
surely you can see why others may feel this is jingoistic.
like when black people feel they don't want to accept honours that mention the british empire. i can see why.
if the smiths down the road had burgled your great-grand parents' home, stolen their goods, and attacked/murdered them, then it's quite likely that you would hesitate to accept the smith medal for community action, the honour having been set up by the same smiths down the road.
the name should be changed to, order of british excellence.

welbeck

maddyone

I dislike the way England is always criticised by the English. The Scots and the the Welsh are proud of themselves and their countries. The Irish are proud of their country and of being Irish. Why are the English so critical of their county?

don't you think it is because of colonialism ?
england was the conquering country, largely, who marched into and subdued those other countries by force of arms.
hence also the affinity between seemingly disparate countries, eg ireland and the caribbean.
they have both experienced being oppressed by england historically, and more recently, looked down upon by english people, some of whom still suffer from a sense of superiority.

No, it was the British Empire not the English Empire. If we're going to be nationalistic about this, then the Welsh and in particular the Scots were enthusiastic imperialists, along with the English, all under the same flag.

So many places in the old colonies have Welsh and Scottish names.

I have always felt fairly patriotic towards both Australia and the UK (though in sport it is always Australia I have to admit!).

Please don't mention the "C" word or the "A" word, nanna8

I'm almost frightened to admit to being patriotic these days as it is jumped on and interpretated wrongly.
If loving your country is patriotism then I am patriotic.
I have no feelings of racism whatsoever.
There is so much good in our country and I do despair at the endless criticism which abounds.
That is not to say I am blind to our faults.

Welbeck you make a good point and it’s probably a good explanation of why a lot of English people don’t say how proud they are of being English. If you stick your head above the parapet and say England is great and you’re proud to be English, you risk an onslaught of attacks dragging up history in which we had no part, or reference to whichever political party is currently in power.

maddyone

I dislike the way England is always criticised by the English. The Scots and the the Welsh are proud of themselves and their countries. The Irish are proud of their country and of being Irish. Why are the English so critical of their county?

don't you think it is because of colonialism ?
england was the conquering country, largely, who marched into and subdued those other countries by force of arms.
hence also the affinity between seemingly disparate countries, eg ireland and the caribbean.
they have both experienced being oppressed by england historically, and more recently, looked down upon by english people, some of whom still suffer from a sense of superiority.

I identify with being English/British. I've been physically ID'd as English in many countries overseas without even opening my mouth.

As others have said, proud? No. No more than I'm proud of being white, having brown hair, being female.

Having said that, I feel VERY English when I'm living overseas. The difference between me and the native population is great. Not to say I don't make friends.

TBH, I had enough of 'patriotisim' when living in the USA. Making 2 year olds who could barely speak, mumble along to the Pledge of Allegance', with a flag waving and a chubby hand placed vaguely in the direction of their hearts? Flags flying from houses where I knew (knew personally I mean) racist people lived. People claiming to be 'proud' to be American who denied native Americans their birthrights.

Well said, are Sarnia and Chestnut,
what is wrong with being proud of our country?
If other countries can do it, so can we,
I am not going to apologise to anyone for being born English. I am proud of our country and I think we should fly more flags and show our pride.

Boat, interesting reply.

By 'love' I don't necessarily mean affectionate feelings. Duty to a moral code is a form of love. Working hard at a useful job is a form of love, including after you have lost all zest for the work.

"I value them as fellow human beings" I agree and this is the least we should expect at this stage of civilisation in 2021.

Now that climate change threatens all civilisation we have to pull ourselves up by our boot straps even more and love trees, animals, lowly herbs, fungi, corals, air and the whole biosphere.The whole creation.

Thankyou Caleo. I see now where you are coming from but I have to disagree.

I am not patriotic but I don't think this makes me less than moral.

Leaving out all but recent history there are things this country has done that I am glad about. This doesn't make me proud because these things are what any civilised country should be doing.

There are other things we have done that I am ashamed of because they are not the actions of a civilised nation.

Do I love my my fellow British and people elsewhere? No.

I don't see how you can love people you don't know but I value them as fellow human beings.

I would want to make their lives better if I could and I think any civilised country should have the same aim.