Patriotism - what do you think about it ?

Jackiest wrote;

"As people in other lands need your love too, patriotism has nothing to do with loving people. The nationality of the person you are loving is irrelevant."

True, loving your compatriots and loving foreigners are not mutually exclusive.

I agree. It’s usually put down to the English feeling the need to apologise for the empire, but other countries had empires - France is just one - and don’t apparently feel the need to beat themselves up about it for ever more.

I agree and in fact it was not The English Empire - it was the British Empire.

Welsh, Scots as well as English were very keen imperialists as can be seen by all the places in the then colonies named after Welsh and Scottish people and places.

Yes, many wrongs were perpetrated by many nations in their expansion and land grabs, including wars between these nations over who had the "rights" to the new worlds.

It's interesting that Great Britain is the only country with a benign Commonwealth in the present day with countries which were not part of the old Empire applying to join.

maddyone

I dislike the way England is always criticised by the English. The Scots and the the Welsh are proud of themselves and their countries. The Irish are proud of their country and of being Irish. Why are the English so critical of their county?

I agree. It’s usually put down to the English feeling the need to apologise for the empire, but other countries had empires - France is just one - and don’t apparently feel the need to beat themselves up about it for ever more.

There s brilliant poem by Kit Wright on this theme:

‘Everyone hates the English
Including the English. They sneer
At each other for being so English,
So what are they doing here,
The English? It’s thick with the English.
All over the country, Why?
Anyone ever born English,
Should shut up, or f*ck off, or die.

Anyone ever born English
Should hold their extraction in scorn
And apologise all over England
For ever at all being born.
For that’s how it is, being English;
Fodder for any old scoff
That England might be a nice country
If only the English f*cked off!

Cherrytree59

Patriotism does not necessarily mean Nationalism.

I am proud and patriotic.
I am proud of the country I now live in. and I am proud of the country of my birth.

I am always perplexed as to why a person who has such a dim view of a country, chooses to stay/live there. Why not reallocate to a country that shares the ethos and values as yourself ?

As for our history
'He who is without sin .....'

We once had the largest empire in the world. At one time I was very proud to part of the nation that achieved that status.
However, the longer I live I realise how much chaos, destruction and harm that nation has done. Right now there is very little to be proud of.

It is obvious that some cannot see that their so-called patriotism is in fact veering towards nationalism.

Unfortunately it is the basis for resentment and much hatred.

I wonder how many people can differentiate between patriotism and nationalism and accurately pinpoint where they fall on a sliding scale between the two.

Caleo

boat wrote:

"Caleo I don't understand your post.

Why is patriotism morally necessary and what is it not sufficient for?"

I mean patriotism is a moral necessity as to love your native country is what you need to love the people around you in your native land.

Patriotism however is not enough because people in other lands need your love too.

As people in other lands need your love too, patriotism has nothing to do with loving people. The nationality of the person you are loving is irrelevant.

EllanVannin

The patriotism in Australia is a joy to see, even their anthem, Advance Australia Fair, is belted out with pride. I love it.

I love it too EllanVannin but there is a HUGE push for it to be changes and it is not inclusive.

IMO in Australia we are becoming afraid to show our patriotism as we are deemed to be racist. Advance Australia Fair has only been our anthem since the mid 1980's but is now deemed to be inappropriate. Thing is if we keep changing things to be current we never have a culture to call our own

boat wrote:

"Caleo I don't understand your post.

Why is patriotism morally necessary and what is it not sufficient for?"

I mean patriotism is a moral necessity as to love your native country is what you need to love the people around you in your native land.

Patriotism however is not enough because people in other lands need your love too.

Independence is normal .
Being ruled by and financially controlled by your next door neighbour isn't
.Even Mark Drakeford admitted to that this week ,in the "union" of equals England is more equal than the rest .Should we just shut up and forget that we are a nation not a region of the DIS united kingdom? Or should we gain the Independence that is our right ?

Of course the fact that we pay far more into the pot is constantly denied by WM so the man/woman in the street believe WE are the scroungers ,only with Independence will they learn the truth ,although why WM would put up with a whole country of scoungers when they wont pay for an extra bedroom for folk who need one is a mystery ,maybe someone on here will know the answer ?

That’s true of everything in life though varian. You name it, and some will become zealots.

How can anyone stop the slide from patriotism to nationalism to racism?

Of course not all patriots become nationalists. But some do.

Of course not all nationalists descend to racism. But some do.

There is a gradation from being positive about our people to being quite negative about others.

definitely two different issues.

Yes, two different issues entirely.

Sadly patriotism, nationalism and racism are not unconnected Annie

That song speaks of racism, we are discussing patriotism.

Oh, how I loved that film when it came out, varian.
Of course, there were two parallel stories of racial prejudice, one ending happily, one not.

I remember most of the songs and that one was very poignant.

This afternoon I watched the film "South Pacific" which I first saw about sixty years ago.

I was quite struck by the song "You've got to be carefully taught" expressing the notion that none of us are born prejudiced against other nationalities but are taught in childhood.

When the original Broadway musical was staged in 1949, this caused some politicians in the Southern states of the USA to accuse it of being communist inspired.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You%27ve_Got_to_Be_Carefully_Taught

dragonfly46

I envy people who live in countries they are proud of eg the US, the Netherlands.
All we Brits do is run our country down.

I’m curious what you think there is to be “proud of” in the US right now?

Their brand of patriotism terrifies me

I think English people think of themselves as British, whereas Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish think of themselves as from their own nation, maybe something to do with retaining our own identity.

Patriotism divides Britain just as it divides the world into countries that fight each other. We all need to work together.

United Kingdom

I just go with British as nationality

No Violet Sky we are four countries , British means of any of
the four countries

See, patriotism seems a bit divisive to me