NHS staff making themselves unemployed by not having the Covid vaccine

I agree with mandatory vaccination. NHS staff have to have other vaccinations in order to do their jobs - hepatitis being one of them. I had to have that when I worked in admin in the NHS and had very limited face to face contact with doctors and patients. I don't get it - is "sticking to your personal choice" more important than ensuring your own safety as well as that of your patients and colleagues? Is your personal choice to deliberately put all those people at risk then? To say it is an untested vaccine is vacuous - how many hundreds of millions of doses have been administered? Many many more than in any clinical trial done over several years.

I had an interesting conversation with a man I vaguely know about vaccine refusal. He said you don't know what's in it. I asked if he took recreational drugs. He said yes - cannabis, pills of various sorts. I asked if he knew what was in those and what they'd been mixed with. He said no, and I asked if he was happy to take those, then how could he say that to justify not having the vaccine, because that hadn't been mixed with anything dangerous. He said oh yeah, right. I don't know if he had the vaccine after all. But I think he realised what a fool he was.

Keeping a balanced view is important. Good infection control and lateral flow testing will protect others. We were told having a vaccine would protect others but it does not. Staying home if having symptoms is important. I used to feel very annoyed with people coming to work with heavy colds and sneezing over others. Common sense should prevail!

I think people have lost sight of what is more important. Is it more important that carers and medical staff are vaccinated or is it more important that there are enough competent staff to care for people? I know what I'd prefer

The absolute contempt for NHS staff is interesting to watch. Mind I always knew the clapping for carers was meaningless.

Blood clots are very much more common on catching covid . I had covid 12 months ago and one of the first things they did after me being admitted to hospital was send me for a CT lung , checking for clots .

Actually Callistemon21, yes they are.

Vaccination will soon become a legal requirement of employment in those roles and by refusing to have the vaccinations they are wilfully acting against the conditions of their employment and as such, ARE making themselves unemployed.
The government changed the terms of employment and in order to remain employed, staff must abide by these new terms. If they don't like the terms, they have 2 choices, leave before the new rules are live, thereby making themselves unemployed (unless they've got a different job to go to that doesn't contractually require them to be vaccinated), or wait until the rules go live and get sacked for non-compliance, which in effect still constitutes it being their own fault they're losing their jobs.

(PS I too am triple jabbed and work in the NHS)

NHS staff making themselves unemployed by not having the Covid vaccine

No, they're not.

The Government is making them unemployed.

I think getting vaccinated (unless medically contraindicated) is the responsible thing to do for all health care and NHS staff who have contact with patients or patient facing staff or work in patient/staff areas- But I am uncomfortable with what is happening presently. Registered health professionals already have many conditions that they must abide by (including Hep B vaccine etc) but compulsory vaccination is a new idea for many non registered staff - such as the many non medical staff ( cleaners/ maintenance staff/ post room/porters/kitchen staff/ admin/clerks etc) who are essential to every health setting.
Hospitals are frantically busy sorting out who must be vaccinated ( or loose their jobs) and those who could continue to work unvaccinated because they have no patient contact and do not visit clinic or ward areas as part of their work role. Some of the staff who could loose their jobs are longstanding lifelong employees. It must be a nightmare to management staff trying to sort this out. There is not much time to get all this sorted ( 2 vaccines ?8 weeks apart are needed to be compliant).

I don’t think any NHS or care worker would take lightly the decision to leave a career dedicated to caring for others. This is a massive decision for them and scary. I would want to know their reasons and their voice deserves to be heard. The coercion placed on these dedicated people makes me feel extremely uncomfortable.

I work for the NHS and have had 3 vaccines. I believe that all staff should be encouraged to be vaccinated but ultimately it should be their choice(human rights).
We cannot afford to loose all these unvaccinated irreplaceable staff, the NHS will be worse off!

There are some really disturbing assumptions and simplifications on here - about - 'the' virus and immunity, leading to incorrect beliefs.

1) The virus:

We have Delta, Omicron - and a strong possibility of present and future new variants. Which one are we talking about? it's not 'the' virus - it's them. Immunity to one is not immunity to another.

2) Immunity:

It's not lasting immunity - it's temporary, very temporary in fact, a few months, maybe six months but waning after three. That's why booster doses are so important.

Omicron has a higher transmissibility rate than previous strains, so higher levels of antibodies are needed to prevent infection.

Immunity gained via only two vaccines or infection to earlier COVID variants (like delta or alpha) won't necessarily prevent omicron infection.

Therefore, regardless of whether you've been previously infected or double-vaccinated, a booster is our best defence against reinfection.

I believe that the number of NHS staff who will leave their jobs rather than have vaccination will be low - and good riddance to them, as i wouldn't want to be treated by them.

Sago - a huge lack of logical thought on your part - example:

'you are at greater risk of complications if you have the virus in your system'

So - there's a risk of blood clots with Covid - and with the vaccine - yet you assign 'complications' to the vaccine - rather than Covid - very strange thinking!

Flipping predictive text. I'll repeat my second paragraph with the correct words....

If you commit a sackable offense, you are considered to have made yourself unemployed in exactly the same way as if you choose to walk out of a job without another lined up to go to.

@Effalump

I thought, if you were sacked, you could still get benefits. Walking out meant you couldn't.

An employer will sack you if you do something that's not allowed or for not doing something that is required, in this case, staff not having legally required vaccinations would be considered a sackable offense.

If you commit a sakhalin offense, you are considered to have made yourself unemployed in exactly the same way as if you chose to walk out of a job without another line up to do to.

I hope this clarifies my point for you.

A scenario - There is only one brain surgeon in the country. A Patient requires immediate brain surgery. They say I am vaccinated and asks the brain surgeon if they are. The surgeon says no. The patient refuses the surgery and leaves. I say the patient clearly does have a brain problem and the surgeon would be highly likely to fix the one showing up on a scan but would not be able to fix the other one.

It's absolutely amazing how any thread that mentions covid, even when it's not intended as a discussion about the virus, ends up being hijacked by people who just want to rant about what's happened after their vaccinations.

I started this thread to find out what people think about medical staff losing their jobs and whether they'll be eligible for unemployment benefits, it wasn't intended to be a general covid rant thread!!!

I fail to understand literally anyone who is too stupid to have the vaccinations and are then surprised that they are not allowed to infect vulnerable patients - the NHS will be better off after a clear out of this dead wood

Callistemon21 Thank you, I have just seen the very rude posts!

Firstly I didn’t spend the lockdown sitting on my bottom nor am I “ anti vax “ or ill educated.

I am sorry for all the NHS and care staff who have exercised their right not to have the vaccines.
It is their prerogative.
I’m sure it is nowhere in their contracts that they must have these vaccines.

As I said in a previous post this is an experimental vaccine.
I have cut and pasted below an excerpt from my previous post;

Sago Wed 19-Jan-22 10:16:30
Pfizer and AstraZeneca - the pharmaceutical commercial partner behind the Oxford vaccine - have both been granted protection from future product liability claims related to their Covid-19 vaccines. It means patients cannot sue for damages.

Speaking to Reuters about the agreement in July, Ruud Dobber, a member of Astra’s senior executive team, said: “This is a unique situation where we as a company simply cannot take the risk if in ... four years the vaccine is showing side effects.

“In the contracts we have in place, we are asking for indemnification.

"For most countries it is acceptable to take that risk on their shoulders because it is in their national interest.”

This indemnification is because the vaccine has not gone through the rigorous testing we have become accustomed to!

Spot on Susysue
Sarnia
Whether or not Susysue is correct or not is irrelevant as her post is extremely rude towards Sago and probably should be reported as an attack on another poster.

I won't as I think it should be left for all to see.

Anybody who says they won’t return to a thread loses any credibility they may have otherwise had immediately topcat223.

Pharma companies have made billions and as reported on GB News Wed 19th Jan over 400 billion was spent in the fight against covid one way or another just in the UK! and not spent wisely either.

Pfizer said it can bring out a vaccine against Omicron in March, why when most of us will have had it by then, some of us without even knowing. More billions?

Read all the virologist reports on youtube [they have to post there because the governments' narrative is not what they are backing ]before you say that this is a tried and tested vaccine. It is not a vaccine as we have known vaccines to be in the past and what use really is a vaccine that wears off after four weeks? when natural immunity gives a much longer protection for you and others....

No the NHS staff do not have a choice and did not sign up to give away their freedom of choice - when has this ever been in their terms and conditions what a stupid thing for anyone to say. As for saying that they are not doing as they are told, what are they five year olds? and who are we to tell anyone what to do with their own lives. Get a grip and find some compassion and empathy instead of wrath, anger and pointless vitriol.....

will not be coming to this thread again but thank you for those who have shown support and empathy for our poor overworked NHS staff vaccinated or not

There are people out there who just do not like being told what to do no matter what that may be. The NH S staff know the terms and conditions of their employment. If they don't like them well they have a choice, leave them to it.

Susysue

Sago

It’s a new vaccine!
We don’t know what the outcome maybe.
Drugs that doctors and nurses administer are tried tested.

Sago, yet another totally ill educated answer which is wholly incorrect. It is comments like this which completely derails the miracle speed, knowledge and expertise which immunologists in this country and around the world have carried out in order to get the vaccines out as quickly as they did. Whilst you were sitting on your bottom, they were working flat out, 24/7 for months. Have more respect and gratitude please. Are you by any chance an anti vaxer?? Shame on you if this is the case!

Spot on Susysue A lot of the spadework for these vaccines were started back in the 90's when HIV raised it's ugly head. It has been decades in development and tweaked by the brilliant scientists we are fortunate to have, helping to save our lives. It suits those like Sago who think some 3rd rate doctor scribbled the formula down on the back of a fag packet to believe the anti-vax rubbish.

Sago

It’s a new vaccine!
We don’t know what the outcome maybe.
Drugs that doctors and nurses administer are tried tested.

Sago, yet another totally ill educated answer which is wholly incorrect. It is comments like this which completely derails the miracle speed, knowledge and expertise which immunologists in this country and around the world have carried out in order to get the vaccines out as quickly as they did. Whilst you were sitting on your bottom, they were working flat out, 24/7 for months. Have more respect and gratitude please. Are you by any chance an anti vaxer?? Shame on you if this is the case!