NHS staff making themselves unemployed by not having the Covid vaccine

Did anyone see GB News yesterday where the official figure given for the total deaths due to covid alone {without any other underlying factors] was 17k and that the average age of those deaths was 82.5 years and that around 700k people die each year in the UK? If so maybe a lot of NHS staff are not willing to take the risks associated with the vaccine particularly as most have natural immunity by now which is far safer and stronger than that provided by the vaccine, which is not in fact a vaccine as we know it. As for unvaccinated NHS staff putting patients at risk, why make them have three vaccines for an illness which is far weaker now and is no longer such a threat to society when everyone clapped and praised them for working throughout the pandemic without adequate protection and vaccines. The vaccine is a trial in real time and we are starting to see the effects with heart problems and other illnesses - lots of people will not admit that the vaccine is and has caused lots of health issues but it is a fact although blocked by the media that a lot more people are getting ill after the vaccine. Why then should someone be forced into getting a jab when the real risk is now over. Boris himself has said that it is only if you've had the booster that you may have any sort of protection, so why insist on 3 vaccines now. It does not make sense. The NHS staff are not being given a choice and will not be easily replaced. I support the unvaccinated staff fully and you should take a look at some of their messages before deciding their futures. We should always try to see both sides of an issue and be able to debate without one side getting angry and not even listening but trying to enforce their will on others. If you want 5 or 6 vaccines they won't try to dissuade you, they only want the choice to decide what goes into their bodies. This was after all a bioweapon accidentally released from a lab why would anyone then want to purposefully inject themselves with it? Also check out the figures for the unvaccinated staff who are currently covering for vaccinated staff who are off either ill or infected......

My husband got a blood clot in his heart after his first jab. Now on blood thinners for life BUT he still had the second and booster, as catching covid would kill him as he has only one functioning lung

If you're vaccinated, you're 'less likely' to contract Covid than if you're not vaccinated and you will have milder symptoms, thus meaning that you're 'less likely' to pass it on and if you do, you're passing on a weaker strain than someone unvaccinated would.

Surely it's exactly the same strength of virus that you'd be passing on, vaccinated or not.
It's just that the effect on a vaccinated person would be less than that of an unvaccinated person.

I don't think the vaccines are 'experimental'. There is too much twaddle being put out. Surely reducing absenteeism amongst NHS staff through Covid is a good reason given the staffing shortage.

AmberSpyglass

I’d rather not be treated by someone whose critical thinking is so poor they don’t have a vaccine during a pandemic.

I agree

I think we may need to think this through carefully. I'm a fully vaccinated ex qualified nurse and I know a few nurses and drs that cannot have the vaccinations due to health concerns, but have worked tirelessly throughout the pandemic. All nurses and drs have to have the hepatitis tests and vaccinations, I had poor immunity to the hepatitis vaccine but was still expected to continue nursing these patients, I just had more tests and vaccines. It's not as cut and dry as people think

Sago

It’s a new vaccine!
We don’t know what the outcome maybe.
Drugs that doctors and nurses administer are tried tested.

It's not 'new' as such. Much of the testing would already have been done as it's a similar vaccine to many others. The only difference is that the funding was immediately made available to fast-track the manufacture. It really isn't going to give you a micro-chip or connect you to 5G!

Personally if you don’t get the jabs your selfish and thinking only of yourself and not others and it shows just how caring you are in a caring position. When I was in hospital not with covid. Nurses were talking about it and all on my ward had being jabbed. As I said how can you treat ppl if you haven’t. And for them telling fear monger stories you should be ashamed of themselves for spreading rubbish. I’m vulnerable and I’ve had all Pfizer with just numb arm. So go spread your rubbish elsewhere

The issue with carers is that they’re underpaid and under supported, not that they have to get the vaccine.

Plus it being mandated for a specific subtype of people but not for society - I guess it is because that subtype of people are working with people who are particularly vulnerable because they are by definition already ill.

I am vaccinated, and always was vacc with god knows what when I worked for NHS. I would like to see an end to NHS staff ramming the covid testing sticks down peoples noses and throats. It's clearly assault. Allow patients the grace, if they can, to do this themselves.

JaneJudge

They did this with carers and we cannot employ people now. I think it's a really bad idea

Yes I’m a carer and as usual we are thought of as dispensable but we’re obviously not as there is a terrific shortage of carers… I have always thought it was quite wrong that we had to get the vaccine or lose our jobs months ago but NHS staff……?‍♀️

I suffered after my first vaccine a year ago and swear to this day it was a slight brain bleed because for the month and beyond February last year I couldn't go out for fear of walking into things because of severe dizziness. Similar symptoms to what I'd had 3 years prior when I'd had a TIA which showed on a scan. Not had anything since !

As a consequence I haven't risked another vaccine but at the same time I'm very careful regarding being out and about and haven't been on public transport for a while so I'm not being complacent by any means.

I had a bad bout of Covid back in 2019/20, and at one time would have been relying on antibodies to defer a further infection.

www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n1931

This is a good start to explaining some of the risks and benefits as someone asked for evidence. I think the main concern among medics was the CVST risk which was thought to be mostly after Oxford hence why it was pulled for younger ageS.. it’s not necessarily about VTE risk per se as that will be higher in Covid anyway due to the immobility of the patients in hospital. We mustn’t confuse the different types by just referring to them as ‘blood clots’ that can be treated.

But as someone previously said. It is about the mandate and the potential slippery slope that can lead to for some health workers. Especially in view of them probably having immunity as pointed out. And having been able to treat people thus far. Plus it being mandated for a specific subtype of people but not for society - of people want to feel safe, and rneu feel safe by knowing someone is vaccinated then it would follow that all public facing workers must be mandated to be vaccinated - teachers, shop workers, hairdressers, beauticians otherwise it makes a mockery of the the concept of mandating it to make people feel safe.
Whilst I wouldn’t refuse and lose my job if I were still working, I do have empathy for those that will and I also respect them for standing up to another attack by the government on this one subsection of society.

I'm not an expert at all but I read as much as I could and decided that for me vaccination was the right choice, I have underlying health conditions.
My son did the same and is someone who suffered a stroke in his 20's.

I keep hearing about all of the side effects from the vaccine and apart from a day or two of feeling rough and a sore arm, nobody I know (luckily) has had any problems.

Something that did cross my mind though was that yellow card reporting is open for people to self report...therefore if I report I've had x. y, z reactions, what follow up / checks are done? Has this been looked at in any way?
I know of people who have reported in the past, not Covid related, and in only one case was there a follow up.
So how reliable is that data.

As a Heath care professional, I have had all my vaccines. After my Hep B I did have a problem, which I didn't realise was a side effect. On going for 2nd Hep B during the pre injection talk the Occ Health nurse questioned me and advised I was not to have the second jab. I had a blood test to assess my Antibodies and found I had enough to cover me.
Those who refuse thier Covid jabs in Health care. only a few will be genuine, I expect will be subjected to routine checks via Occ Health. The rest will loose their jobs /careers, no one will take them on.
Agencies have already stated " no Jabs no jobs" so that door is firmly shut too.

ElaineI

There are a lot of comments here by people who are not NHS workers so have no actual knowledge about vaccinations NHS staff do or do not have to receive. Best not to comment if you don't work in NHS and don't actually know the facts. This is not about whether it is right or wrong to be vaccinated but about the actual rules for front line staff.

It’s also about everyone’s confidence in the NHS, it’s staff and everyone having the confidence to put absolute trust in the care of a perfect stranger in a hospital uniform.

Are those NHS staff who have antibodies from having recovered from Covid any less of a danger to patients than vaccinated staff?

Sorry - any more of a danger

(I have adverts covering the message box again, annoying)

Urmstongran

I’m on the fence over this to be honest. I’m vaccinated so I’ve hopefully protected myself as far as. The unvaccinated people I don’t feel they put me at risk. I could catch it from anyone. Those who don’t get themselves vaccinated are more likely to take up hospital beds with Covid and as the NHS has such a huge backlog at present, that does seem selfish - gambling over stretched NHS resources needing a bed and staff.

I am more uncertain than ever too, Urmsongran.

I know NHS staff who had Covid before vaccines were available, thankfully recovered. Presumably they developed antibodies, probably as many as those people who are vaccinated have developed.

I also know of people who have had the vaccinations and become very ill with Covid, one locally who died within a week.

Are those NHS staff who have antibodies from having recovered from Covid any less of a danger to patients than vaccinated staff?
Both could be a potential risk or not. There is not much testing done to see who has developed antibodies and at what level.

I think we're still on a learning curve re Covid and have a long way to go before we understand more fully.

The speed of roll-out is because so many countries threw money at it and they co-operated to get this out as quickly as possible.

All vaccines carry risk and all vaccines contain a small absence of certainty about long term effects when they are new. Flu vaccine etc. - all carried that tiny risk when they were new.

Faced with a pandemic, we have to be sensible and weigh up the tiny risks against the mass benefits.

Sago

It’s a new vaccine!
We don’t know what the outcome maybe.
Drugs that doctors and nurses administer are tried tested.

Honestly I am so tired of hearing this. The vaccine is not new, it is simply targeted at a new virus - the same principles that apply to so many other vaccines apply here. All they did was adapt those principles to keep people safe from covid. And I applaud the tireless efforts of the scientists to help us to stay as safe as possible and to get this vaccine up and running as speedily as possible.

Pfizer and AstraZeneca - the pharmaceutical commercial partner behind the Oxford vaccine - have both been granted protection from future product liability claims related to their Covid-19 vaccines. It means patients cannot sue for damages.

Speaking to Reuters about the agreement in July, Ruud Dobber, a member of Astra’s senior executive team, said: “This is a unique situation where we as a company simply cannot take the risk if in ... four years the vaccine is showing side effects.

“In the contracts we have in place, we are asking for indemnification.

"For most countries it is acceptable to take that risk on their shoulders because it is in their national interest.”

I think this statement says it all.

Rosie51

^I am amazed at how gullible we are, merrily rolling our sleeves up for a vaccination that has been pushed through clinical trials at astonishing speed.^

Is it really necessary to point out yet again that in the history of pharmaceuticals there has never been so much money thrown at a project, nor so many volunteers to take part in trials that they were turning them away? Normally in the search for a vaccine or other intervention they have to spend ages going round with the begging bowl, and then the problem of recruiting enough volunteers to do the trials at every stage. These vaccines have gone through exactly the same procedures as any other, they've just not encountered the obstacles to progress.

Good post Rosie. All medications have side effects for a few people. There have been some unfortunate people who have developed blood clots. Most recovered after treatment in hospital. Sadly a few have died. That’s catastrophic for the person and the family. This must be balanced by all the people who have died from Covid or got side effects from Covid, myself included due to lung scars which are being monitored by the medics. The lung scars are not symptom free for me, I have a terrible cough which will not go away despite treatment with inhalers and tablets including steroids. I still took the vaccine.

If you want to see your family and friends get vaccinated. If you choose to work in caring services or the NHS get vaccinated. I wouldn’t want to be around anyone not vaccinated thats my choice.

I am amazed at how gullible we are, merrily rolling our sleeves up for a vaccination that has been pushed through clinical trials at astonishing speed.

Is it really necessary to point out yet again that in the history of pharmaceuticals there has never been so much money thrown at a project, nor so many volunteers to take part in trials that they were turning them away? Normally in the search for a vaccine or other intervention they have to spend ages going round with the begging bowl, and then the problem of recruiting enough volunteers to do the trials at every stage. These vaccines have gone through exactly the same procedures as any other, they've just not encountered the obstacles to progress.