NHS staff making themselves unemployed by not having the Covid vaccine

Susysue- I agree with you! Clinical staff should have better access to reliable information, so clinical staff still refusing to get vaccinated at this stage (without a medical reason) should not need any support to role up their sleeves to get jabbed to protect their patients. I know of no clinical colleagues who are not vaccinated and rightly so! The few medical and nursing staff on the news refusing vaccination are a mystery to me. Not all staff who have patient contact or work in or near clinical areas have medical knowledge. Hospitals do not want to lose valued staff whatever their roles, due to fears gleaned from false information, or poor understanding of statistics, and hospitals have been trying to support staff -with virtual question and answer sessions, information data etc since before mandatory C19 vaccines were announced .
All NHS staff and anyone involved in clinical work in any setting is testing for C19 at least twice weekly as far as I know, Rosie- at least at present.

Being vaccinated does not stop anyone actually having Covid I would be more concerned that the staff in question had tested negative

It is very strange really for everyone. One of our grandchildren is going into hospital for a little operation. The child has to isolate for three days beforehand and be tested. Only one parent can go into the hospital with them. That parent has to also isolate with them three days before. However, the other children can go to school and the other parent can go to work. Yes, there will be unvaccinated staff once they are in hospital. Maybe an unvaccinated person doing the operation?

I'm in a quandary over this. Don't think anyone should be forced to make such a personal decision. I certainly wouldn't like to be cared for by an unvaccinated person but, if I needed urgent surgery, I think I might settle for anyone (particularly with the current backlog situation)

maddyone

I don’t understand the reasons why staff would choose not have the vaccine, but I don’t think it’s unfair if they know the requirement and refuse. Doctors have always had to have the Hep B vaccine. What’s the difference?

not just doctors, nurses and other health professionals too!

Margiknot, for heavens sake!!!! NHS staff, just like the rest of the world's population have had the same information, if not even a greater chance of more advanced information then the rest of us. Why on earth do you think that NHS staff have the time to further encourage other NHS staff to take the vaccine? My daughter last week worked 68 hours in emergency med dept. She and others like her are already working flat out and are exhausted as she has been throughout the pandemic. No, the answer is that if these NHS staff who are not lacking in knowledge regarding the vaccine but are just digging their heels in and refusing it, either through bloody mindedness or ignorance. If they refuse to be vaccinated, then they should be give a formal warning and then if they still do not comply, dismissal

I think there are 2 main groups of people in the NHS that have not been vaccinated- the determined anti covid vaccine ( for whatever reason) and those who are not 'antivac' as such, but have heard/read things that worry them and are holding back out of fear or as yet undecided. The nhs needs to help the both groups but especially the second - by giving them reliable information and allow those that wish it expert help ( speaking individually as needed to knowledgeable experts) to make help them make their own decisions. Most hospitals are doing this. There may need to be a short 'grace' period for staff who have started on their vaccine schedule ( or have had to delay due to covid infection or other medical reason), rather than a delay.

And who can blame her ?!

Susysue Unable to sleep and feeling angry?

Skyblue2

I am trying to follow the logic. If 90% of the NHS have been vaccinated why are so many getting sick? Who are all these expert scientists? Why are we not hearing from the expert professionals in the field who have important observations and concerns? Why are we not hearing about all the people who have been seriously injured or dead from the vaccine? How ,any people have heard of a Maddie de Garry, the 12 year old who took part in the Pfizer vaccine trial who was seriously injured after the second jab and is now in a wheelchair? Why are we not hearing the news stories about the many sportsmen and women who have been Injured or now dead? Just saying

Skyblue2.... unbelievable!!! Yet another load of scaremongering propaganda!!! The way you write it suggests that there are many many cases of people having had the vaccines and subsequently died from complications from it. This is just not factual!! Where on earth are you getting this drivel from? Total and utter ignorance I am afraid to say and very dangerous! Have you been in ICU watching a once healthy person struggling with covid at the height of the pandemic before any vaccines were available? Nhs staff were absolutely helpless in thousands of cases for many months at the start of covid and could do very little to save these people and have been left traumatised by this horrific experience. Yet people like you jump on the smallest of instances of people having a fatal or otherwise reaction to the vaccine!!!

I cannot believe that people who work for the NHS do not have the jab. It all seems wrong to me.

topcat223

Pharma companies have made billions and as reported on GB News Wed 19th Jan over 400 billion was spent in the fight against covid one way or another just in the UK! and not spent wisely either.

Pfizer said it can bring out a vaccine against Omicron in March, why when most of us will have had it by then, some of us without even knowing. More billions?

Read all the virologist reports on youtube [they have to post there because the governments' narrative is not what they are backing ]before you say that this is a tried and tested vaccine. It is not a vaccine as we have known vaccines to be in the past and what use really is a vaccine that wears off after four weeks? when natural immunity gives a much longer protection for you and others....

No the NHS staff do not have a choice and did not sign up to give away their freedom of choice - when has this ever been in their terms and conditions what a stupid thing for anyone to say. As for saying that they are not doing as they are told, what are they five year olds? and who are we to tell anyone what to do with their own lives. Get a grip and find some compassion and empathy instead of wrath, anger and pointless vitriol.....

will not be coming to this thread again but thank you for those who have shown support and empathy for our poor overworked NHS staff vaccinated or not

Topcat, for your information, I am certainly not unempathetic to hardworking NHS staff.... my beloved daughter is an emergency med registrar who has worked solidly throughout the pandemic AT THE FRONTLINE!!. She has had all her vaccines, being some of the first in her age group to get it, due to her position. She has had her booster also. She and many other NHS staff who she works with are disgusted by the anti vaxers in their profession. They cannot understand their thinking on refusing to take the vaccine and think it is disgraceful and unethical.

nhs workers are very fortunate if they can opt for unemployment over having vacccine and keeping a job!

winterwhite

It seems that this policy is now being rethought because the NHS couldn't cope with the staff losses. OK. But what message does that send to the care home workers who los their jobs in the autumn for exactly this reason?

A terrible example of the govt failing to think things through. Or did they use the care sector as guinea pigs?
How on earth do those who think this govt is handling the pandemic well explain this?

As a carer I totally agree with you..??????????

It seems that this policy is now being rethought because the NHS couldn't cope with the staff losses. OK. But what message does that send to the care home workers who los their jobs in the autumn for exactly this reason?

A terrible example of the govt failing to think things through. Or did they use the care sector as guinea pigs?
How on earth do those who think this govt is handling the pandemic well explain this?

@Shropshirelass

It is very difficult, but I do not think you can force people to be vaccinated or lose their jobs. You cannot have mandatory vaccination for some and not others, what about teachers? I have been vaccinated but I do have friends who have not, both in health care too! I respect their decisions, they take every precaution and test regularly.

Employers have the right to make stipulations about what they consider necessary for employees and the NHS already stipulates Hepatitis B vaccinations, so it's just the next step to add Covid vaccination to the requirement.

You ask, why not teachers?, there's nothing to say that the Education Secretary won't stipulate at some point in the future that teaching staff need to be vaccinated. Rules change all the time, people's employment contracts get changed and if they don't want to abide by the new rules they have to look for a new job elsewhere.

I have heard of Maddie De Garay.

I am trying to follow the logic. If 90% of the NHS have been vaccinated why are so many getting sick? Who are all these expert scientists? Why are we not hearing from the expert professionals in the field who have important observations and concerns? Why are we not hearing about all the people who have been seriously injured or dead from the vaccine? How ,any people have heard of a Maddie de Garry, the 12 year old who took part in the Pfizer vaccine trial who was seriously injured after the second jab and is now in a wheelchair? Why are we not hearing the news stories about the many sportsmen and women who have been Injured or now dead? Just saying

I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with mandatory vaccination for NHS staff. My doctor daughter had to have the Hep B vaccine whilst she was still a student so that she could do a three month rotation in theatre. No choice, just get the vaccine. Why’s it different? Were her human rights being removed because she was told to get the Hep B vaccine? Of course they weren’t, it was for her protection. As is having the Covid vaccine, for ourselves and for others. We are less likely to get Covid, less likely to get it badly if we do get it, and less likely to transmit it if we’ve had the virus. This has all been proved by careful analysis by scientists. NHS staff need to get the vaccine.

Skyblue2:

'We were told having a vaccine would protect others but it does not. '

Wrong! Vaccinated people are far less likely to get Covid in the first place. If you don't get Covid, you can't infect someone else.”

I am not amazed or disbelieving that people make different choices to myself.

So, what you are saying is, you don't want an unvaccinated person coming anywhere near you, be it the surgeon, the nurse, the cleaner or the receptionist who is behind a screen - even though you are fully vaccinated yourself.

The conundrum there is that you don't have faith in the vaccines you have had to protect you.

I'm playing Devil's Advocate here.
I am fully vaccinated and I am as careful as I can be but I'm finding it difficult to follow some of the logic.

Regular testing of staff, including antibody testing of those who have had Covid, should be the norm.

Galaxy - I don't think there's contempt for NHS staff. Amazement and disbelief that they would remain unvaccinated, specially as they have seen Covid patients at first hand, anger about them deliberately choosing to put patients, colleagues, and even themselves at risk - I see that and I guess I feel that myself.

If you're sick enough to be in hospital you are vulnerable to all infection - I wouldn't want to be treated by anyone unvaccinated. I've had cancer three times and my treatment has been good and efficient, by (mostly) kind, dedicated, knowledgeable staff, from clinical to support staff. But if I was in hospital right now, I'd be very wary.

Some of the comments on here about the Covid virus made based on personal experience and cod science makes me despair. NHS staff need to be vaccinated to prevent NHS staff members getting a bad dose of Covid (some still will but that’s the nature of it). Constantly having resource issues due to staff illness is causing huge problems for the delivery of the service. Have the vaccine and do us all a favour please medics.

It is very difficult, but I do not think you can force people to be vaccinated or lose their jobs. You cannot have mandatory vaccination for some and not others, what about teachers? I have been vaccinated but I do have friends who have not, both in health care too! I respect their decisions, they take every precaution and test regularly.