Fined for rule breaking during "lock down"

Dear God no we didnt need troops.

Surely if those who were fined got refunds, this would also apply to Boris and his cronies as well.

Can't have one rule for us and another for them.

And surely we want Bojo et al to pay the price for their rule breaking. As others have said, two wrongs don't make a right.

I feel so let down by my fellow country folk.
I agree with GagaJo. Troops on the streets would have been beneficial only because so many refused to keep within the COVID guidance and law. Some going on holiday some driving to family many miles away. Most just going out. We were told we could exercise for a half an hour - obs some can’t tell the time. 2, 3 or 4 hours some of my neighbours were out.
We have so few police with many of them on sick leave. We needed boots on the streets. It is evidenced now that lots couldn’t be trusted to stay at home. The only way if it breaks out again is to bring the troops on the streets to stop
spreading the pandemic.
I remember the schools allowing children to attend if their parents were priority workers. Many many in our local school sent their children to school and did not have front line jobs. We definitely sadly needed the troops.

majority?

Not the majority, surely?

Why does the majority of the population consider that rules do not apply to themselves or consider themselves fireproof?

The usual modus operandi is SELF above all.

I don’t think those who were fined should be reimbursed nor should they get an apology. They broke the law. If they broke the guidelines that is different since the guidelines were only guidance and not legally enforceable.
We had a mini Hitler in our little close. He took photographs of our neighbours whose daughter popped in the house, he complained to the police when his new neighbours moved in next door to him, because they brought one set of their parents to see the new house (the couple were already living with the parents and going to move out to live in their own house.) He enquired of other neighbours as to why our daughter and her family were living in our house for two months prior to their move to New Zealand. The reason was that they had sold their own house and were homeless. We checked the rules and if you were between houses you were allowed to stay in a hotel or another home quite legally. We were not breaking the law, however I would have broken the law if necessary because I would not have left my daughter and her husband and three little children homeless for two months.

I hope your friend is ok Gagajo. That must have been extremely difficult.
Very hard times for many.
It would have been impossible to get the rules perfect to suit everyone.

Everyone who was fined, reprimanded should be reimbursed and record cleared after offering an apology. What works for some should work for all. That is of course dependent upon the Gray report findings and Parliament's reaction.

Rule-breaking is rule-breaking irrespective of how big the infringement and if the punishment was a fine then that should be across the board. I recall national news being made twice when Rita Ora had large parties in private venues and was given equally large fines to pay - so right. Our Downing Street cronies continued with their parties in the garden and in the basement knowing that high-profile gatherings were attracting high fines - they too should pay them and why exactly we're waiting for the official report is beyond me - when people are told to BYOB that's a party invitation - Johnson is a squirmer who's managed to wriggle out of everything else dirty and sleazy so far, but anybody who seriously spends time debating over whether BYOB is the terminology one uses in a work meeting context is a slate loose. Fines should be levied now and paid - and not from the taxpayers' pocket! There has to be some personal accountability here. Also, just to get this off my chest, Johnson's insidious remarks that people in Downing Street work very hard should be pushed very far down his throat until he realises that lots of people work very hard and have put their lives on the line at the same time rather than being cocooned in the Downing Street environment.

I know several grans who had contact with children and grandchildren when it was forbidden. Regular Sunday lunches didn't count!

And we broke the Shielding rules a week before the end and went Out. Off the property for a late walk around the block when no one was about. I trust you can all keep a secret!

62Granny

Just wondering if anybody on GN was reprimanded or even fined during the lockdown either last year or 2020? Or do you know of someone who was, are you going to try and get an apology or their conviction overturned when the report is out?

Conviction overturned? Someone's been watching too much daytime TV!? Convictions and fines will and should stand. Those NOT fined should now be fined.thats how you get a level playing field. It's like saying, "he got away with murder so I should too" n'est ce pas?

There is no way BJ or Dom are going to be fined. The Met simply won't get involved - something to do with senior jobs, maybe.

GagaJo, Thank goodness we don't live in a police state where the army can have so much power as in totalitarian countries where people have no personal freedom.
For all that is believed to have been done unlawfully we are so fortunate to still have a political system that can be called out and scrutinised. For all its faults I am so glad I live in this country. But I do think those in the government who broke the rules should be penalised severely. Personally I'm fed up of Bojo and his lackadaisical approach ...as if it were all a big joke and his lying and ducking and diving. The man can't even string a sentence together properly! I hope he gets ousted.

We took the rules seriously but did have to laugh at the excuse of a local man stopped by the police, having driven to London and back at the height of the lock down. He said he had gone to buy a loaf of bread.

We're in Leicester, 90 miles from London. A 180 miles round trip for a loaf of bread. Such a bare-faced liar! He should have been a politician.

Yes, the 'rules' were insane

Agree with you, the ' rules' were idiotic

We were advised to exercise locally not drive somewhere for a walk.
The car park at the country park near me was full every weekend throughout lockdown.
I believe quite a few people did break the rules and if they were caught and fined then that was right and nobody should be reimbursed.

Alegrias1

It's not the rules about drinking coffee in a field I object to, its the idea that thinking that using the military to enforce the rules is even remotely acceptable.

How's that strict lockdown worked out for Spain?

The same applies to Greece Alegrias1 ultra strict military enforced lockdown and yet their deaths per million are fast approaching UK figures! Italy are well ahead and theirs was policed by force also.

Better to have them imprisoned in their houses, speaking to no one?

I had a friend in the middle of a nervous break-down during lockdown in Spain. She followed the rules at great personal cost to herself.

The same folk who complained were (legally!) driving half an hour to supermarkets instead of using local Eurospar.

Those complainers were idiots and hypocrites then.

Alegrias1

It's not the rules about drinking coffee in a field I object to, its the idea that thinking that using the military to enforce the rules is even remotely acceptable.

How's that strict lockdown worked out for Spain?

In theory, the military are there to protect. So by moving on/finding field coffee drinkers, they're protecting essential workers from having contact with covid positive individuals who aren't complying with lockdown.

Lockdown has to be everyone to work.

GagaJo

Germanshepherdsmum

I live near the sea in north Norfolk. I remember a lot of people being fined for driving here from some distance away when it was against the rules, including a man who had driven over 100 miles ‘to walk his dogs and buy fish and chips’.

My point exactly. The number of people he would have come into contact with (buying fuel, food, toilets) and could have infected if covid positive was not inconsiderable.

Highly irresponsible.

Of course it was, I totally agree. But driving a few minutes from your home because you aren't mobile isn't. Better to have them imprisoned in their houses, speaking to no one? The same folk who complained were (legally!) driving half an hour to supermarkets instead of using local Eurospar.

It's not the rules about drinking coffee in a field I object to, its the idea that thinking that using the military to enforce the rules is even remotely acceptable.

How's that strict lockdown worked out for Spain?

Alegrias1

GagaJo

Yes Hetty. I have a friend who lives in Spain. Very militarised. And she approved. Far too many people thinking they were the exception.

I don't think I would have approved of having the military check if I was drinking a cup of coffee in a field.

Just a wee bit of over-reaction maybe?

Either have a lockdown or don't. But half a**ed messing about is/was pointless. Just doesn't work.

If you're drinking coffee in your field, fine. If you've travelled 100 miles to get there, not fine.

Hetty58

Alegrias1, they really meant business and the message got through. Here, some just carried on as normal, with no consequences, making the sensible majority despair.

Regarding the military - It doesn't matter if they meant business and the message go through. Having the armed forces on the street enforcing limits on freedom of movement for ordinary people is a no-no as far as I'm concerned. There comes a time when people have to say enough is enough.

This member of the sensible majority didn't despair. She got a bit annoyed. No despair.

Throughout the past year, the government has – probably deliberately – muddled the difference between law and guidance, and social distancing has only ever been guidance,” said Adam Wagner, a barrister at Doughty Street Chambers who has studied coronavirus legislation.

Social distancing guidelines have been in place throughout the pandemic, advising people to maintain a specified distance – usually 2 metres – between themselves and others to minimise the possibility of spreading germs.

While hugging has not been banned, legally enforceable regulations did certainly make it more difficult. At points, outdoor “gatherings” or more than two people have been banned, and socialising at home with visitors remains forbidden.

But if people had mixed up the advice, which had the backing of a broad range of experts, for the law, they can be excused. “The government have hardly discouraged this confusion,” Wagner said.

Throughout the pandemic, the government has issued instructions as though they were enforceable rules, when in fact they were not, Wagner pointed out. When Boris Johnson announced the beginning of the first national lockdown in March by instructing the nation to remain indoors, the order had no legal power for three days.

“And that set the mode for the rest of the year,” Wagner said. “The most common example that people think about is exercise once per day, which has never been part of the law. It’s always been the law that you can exercise whenever you want.”

It is not just the public who have been left scratching their heads. Last spring, confusion over the legal status of rules around social distancing and for what reasons people could leave home led to police patrolling parks, scolding people for sitting too close to each other, or doing the wrong kind of exercise. Eventually the College of Policing issued guidance telling officers to only enforce what was written in the law.

Silkie Carlo, the director of the civil liberties group Big Brother Watch, said: “Throughout the pandemic the government has often blurred the lines, sometimes deliberately, between the law and merely its wishes, causing real damage to democracy and the rule of law.

“It’s quite disturbing to see this seem to manifest in huge volumes of favourable media coverage on government lifting a hugging ban that literally doesn’t exist. It would be extremely absurd if it did exist.”

This is from the guardian sometime last year. I saved it because of the backlash I received after I disclosed that I had the audacity to take 2 totally isolated walks a day on the Yorkshire moors where the nearest person was probably at least a mile away. The venomous posts I received were quite upsetting.
It was NEVER the law that we couldn’t exercise as often as we wanted. So many people have been duped into believing advice and guidance was the same as legally enforceable laws.