HRT to be sold over the counter!

Silverlady333. I find that an excellent solution for wrinkles around the mouth is to keep smiling. I’m guessing you have lots to smile about.

I want to point out that I used the term "people" here because the care pathway is the same for both men and women. While women are more likely to develop osteoporosis, it can and does occur in men as well.

As far as hip fractures:

Here in Canada, in my province at least, any older person who suffers a hip fracture is automatically started on treatment for osteoporosis - a bisphosphonate weekly, plus vitamin D and calcium daily. About 70% of people who have a hip fracture have osteoporosis, so treating for it is part of the standard care pathway.

Esspee Thu 03-Feb-22 14:09:33

Silverlady333. Nowadays there are many women on HRT for life.
We usually have a smile on our face and a zest for life. ?

Yes and we keep our libido too!

trisher

I have been on HRT estrogen only for over 24 years after a hysterectomy I had several gynae operations after that for prolapse. It took me 10 years to get everything sorted. My HRT has helped to keep everything healthy in that department! No amount of weight bearing exercises would put that right!
I do know if I wasn't taking it I very likely would have had two broken knee caps and a broken wrist after I slipped on wet grass and fell in my garden. As it was I bounced! I had two beautifully bruised knees though.
It does not stop your hair turning grey or prevent wrinkles but I certainly do not feel old!

Anyway this article is about topically applied HRT into the vagina. It is not ingested in any way.
I worked as a nurse in a Gynae clinic and I have seen some horrendous sights in elderly women due to lack of hormones.! Anything that helps women with problems like this is a God send!

trisher

Hippie20

Apparently 1 in 3 women get osteoporosis. How many women are routinely checked for bone density? And how many elderly women have a fall and subsequently get pneumonia and die. I paid privately for a check and my bone density was above average for my age. I have taken HRT for 15 years. Women do your own research. Yes there are risks but balance this with the advantages. A young female gp refused to prescribe hrt and wanted to give me a anti depressants. I refused and went to see a male gynaecologist who said if he was female he would take it.

Most NHS hospitals now schedule a scan for anyone who has a bone fracture. It sometimes occurs in people who would seem unlikely candidates. Teenage girls who restrict their food intake or diet and the same for boys now.
I simply asked for a test and that was 25 years ago.
Pneumonia is not the result of falls. In fact the recovery rate for elderly women is remarkable. Broken hips which were once a killer are replaced even in 90 year olds.

trisher. Yet again a huge amount of misinformation from you.

“Most NHS hospitals now schedule a scan for anyone who has a bone fracture.” This is incorrect. A bone scan is only requested if the doctor feels it possible that the patient has osteoporosis.

“I simply asked for a test”. You may have asked but the doctor would not have requested a scan unless they believed you might have osteoporosis. Anyway that was quarter of a century ago.

“The recovery rate [from hip fractures] for elderly women is remarkable”. In fact England has the highest mortality rate post hip fracture according to a 2021 study in Geriatric Medical Journal. 31% of patients die within a year compared with Canada 23%, Australia 22%, and France 20%

I am sure Hippie20 is aware that pneumonia is not caused by falls but it is on the death certificate of many hip fracture patients so a not uncommon result.

Keep posting false information and I will continue to FACT CHECK your statements. Misinformation is dangerous.

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202202/medium-340176-863773b7-5b87-4acb-9329-02edb265ae05.jpeg https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202202/medium-183541-5234b12a-5074-43d6-a5b1-569d5546be60.jpeg https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202202/medium-63519-a82935da-373a-4646-b5e2-c4c6c53025f6.jpeg

trisher

Espee I am not the person on this thread who has consistently stated that women taking HRT are younger, fitter and more active than other women. I wouldn't dream of making such a statement.
As for the ROS document. I think the appropriate phrase in that is that "HRT is a safe and effective treatment when it is prescribed in the right way for women who need it." The idea that a specific condition such as osteoporosis needs to be treated by oestrogen is not supported. I gave a link to the recommended treatments.
There are also warnings in that document about possible side effects and the point at which the use of HRT might have to be terminated.
I have no objection to you using and enthusing about HRT, but when I post a link to something I think my opinion is actually supported. Quite how linking to the ROS recommendations for treatments for osteoporosis is "misinformation" I don't know.

Trisher. There is such a thing as anecdotal statements such as “my friends on HRT all look younger than those who have gone through the menopause”. It is true as far as my friends are concerned but may or may not apply across the board and may be purely coincidental.

Then there are facts.
FACT CHECKING
You stated that “Hormone treatment is not something recommended by the ROS” If you look at the attached images you will see that HRT is on their list of treatments and the ROS clearly state who they recommend it for. Your statement is incorrect.

Espee I am not the person on this thread who has consistently stated that women taking HRT are younger, fitter and more active than other women. I wouldn't dream of making such a statement.
As for the ROS document. I think the appropriate phrase in that is that "HRT is a safe and effective treatment when it is prescribed in the right way for women who need it." The idea that a specific condition such as osteoporosis needs to be treated by oestrogen is not supported. I gave a link to the recommended treatments.
There are also warnings in that document about possible side effects and the point at which the use of HRT might have to be terminated.
I have no objection to you using and enthusing about HRT, but when I post a link to something I think my opinion is actually supported. Quite how linking to the ROS recommendations for treatments for osteoporosis is "misinformation" I don't know.

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202202/medium-21661-9b8f6bcd-80b3-47bc-8b4a-889aaaab89d5.jpeg https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202202/medium-603483-7ef27e78-faaf-4c52-81cb-cda14664dca1.jpeg

trisher

I don't resent anything Espee. Somehow you mistake my distrust of drug companies for resentment, it is no such thing.
I actually had osteoporosis before I went through the menopause. I didn't "claw my way back"at all. I took a drug which reversed the bone loss I was experiencing. Osteoporosis is not a disease of the menopause and all sorts of people suffer from it including men. Hormone treatment is not something recommended by the Royal Osteoporosis Society theros.org.uk/information-and-support/osteoporosis/treatment/how-long-should-i-take-my-medication/
I stopped taking the drug, my bone density had improved and continues to do so because I take calcium and Vit D and exercise. I'm not on any medication now.
I question women being put on a drug for 40+ years when a healthy lifestyle may be all that is needed.

Trisher. I must point out that you consistently put forward your views as fact when these “facts” are simply not true.

“Hormone treatment is not something recommended by the Royal Osteoporosis Society” you state. REALLY?. Perhaps you should read the attached from a ROS publication. HRT is a safe and effective treatment according to the ROS.

“Osteoporosis is not a disease of the menopause” you state. Well not exclusively but as you can see from the second image the ROS are quite clear in stating that reduced oestrogen levels in post menopausal women result in osteoporosis.

When you state inaccuracies on a site like this there are people who will believe you because you state the misinformation in an adamant manner. I will refute every lie you contribute to this thread because I care that people have the true facts to allow them to make up their own minds. Whatever they then decide to do is their business. There is no right or wrong in personal decisions based on true facts.

Hippie20, We had regular check ups, including bone density, at work. I always 'won'.

Esspee:

'None of my friends of comparable age who are not on HRT would manage that.'

Five miles and a swim? Easy peasy. It's such a shame that so many women think they 'need' artificial HRT to stay strong. Good food and exercise does it!

(Strictly vegan, though, not fish with microplastics.)

Hippie20

Apparently 1 in 3 women get osteoporosis. How many women are routinely checked for bone density? And how many elderly women have a fall and subsequently get pneumonia and die. I paid privately for a check and my bone density was above average for my age. I have taken HRT for 15 years. Women do your own research. Yes there are risks but balance this with the advantages. A young female gp refused to prescribe hrt and wanted to give me a anti depressants. I refused and went to see a male gynaecologist who said if he was female he would take it.

Most NHS hospitals now schedule a scan for anyone who has a bone fracture. It sometimes occurs in people who would seem unlikely candidates. Teenage girls who restrict their food intake or diet and the same for boys now.
I simply asked for a test and that was 25 years ago.
Pneumonia is not the result of falls. In fact the recovery rate for elderly women is remarkable. Broken hips which were once a killer are replaced even in 90 year olds.

Apparently 1 in 3 women get osteoporosis. How many women are routinely checked for bone density? And how many elderly women have a fall and subsequently get pneumonia and die. I paid privately for a check and my bone density was above average for my age. I have taken HRT for 15 years. Women do your own research. Yes there are risks but balance this with the advantages. A young female gp refused to prescribe hrt and wanted to give me a anti depressants. I refused and went to see a male gynaecologist who said if he was female he would take it.

Thank you Mary doll I have complted this consultation. I have had similar prescriptions from GP over the years and would be very happy to buy over the counter if needed again.
New proposals to reclassify the first HRT product for self-care (Gina 10 microgram vaginal tablets, containing estradiol), would mean that women in the UK could access a menopausal treatment at a pharmacy, without requiring a prescription for the first time. Other vaginal tablets that also contain estradiol, including Vagifem will still be available on prescription. This is the MHRA’s first reclassification consultation for a Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) product locally applied in the vagina. This product is inserted into the vagina and not taken orally.

Source: GOVUK.

www.gov.uk/government/news/views-sought-on-making-first-local-vaginal-hrt-product-available-without-need-for-prescription

I don't know if it's HRT that makes the difference Esspee I wouldn't have managed that much exercise in my twenties. I've got no experience of HRT because I never had any symptoms that needed treatment. I've never asked my friends if they are on it but I suppose my daughter will be a possible candidate soon.

Every woman I know on HRT lives very healthy lifestyles aided by the medication they are on.
Personally I had walked 5 miles before sunrise this morning and finished with a 45 min swim in the sea before a healthy breakfast of fish and salad. (I am in sunnier climes)
None of my friends of comparable age who are not on HRT would manage that.

I don't resent anything Espee. Somehow you mistake my distrust of drug companies for resentment, it is no such thing.
I actually had osteoporosis before I went through the menopause. I didn't "claw my way back"at all. I took a drug which reversed the bone loss I was experiencing. Osteoporosis is not a disease of the menopause and all sorts of people suffer from it including men. Hormone treatment is not something recommended by the Royal Osteoporosis Society theros.org.uk/information-and-support/osteoporosis/treatment/how-long-should-i-take-my-medication/
I stopped taking the drug, my bone density had improved and continues to do so because I take calcium and Vit D and exercise. I'm not on any medication now.
I question women being put on a drug for 40+ years when a healthy lifestyle may be all that is needed.

Trisher. Believe it or not drug companies have to list the ingredients of their products and most women can read. Every woman I know who is on HRT researched it thoroughly and insisted on getting transdermal oestrogen or implants all of which are plant based. Your hobby horse was big news 30 years ago when you were menopausal. Life has moved on.

Anyone taking non plant based oestrogen only has themselves to blame for allowing this unethical practice to continue. If nobody accepted it the manufacturers would stop making it.

You had osteoporosis at 55 and had to claw your way back to an acceptable bone mass over the next 15 years. You state you took drugs to achieve this. That benefits the pharmaceutical industry too. To use your reasoning menopause is natural and shouldn’t be prevented by taking drugs. Please explain why, with osteoporosis being a natural progression of menopause you felt it OK for you to accept a “money spinner for drug companies” to relieve your osteoporosis?

You seem to resent that some women have chosen to use advances in medicine to improve their quality of life. We are probably about the same age. I benefitted from using the contraceptive pill which was a major factor in me having only two children and an excellent quality of life. Now I use HRT and am healthy and happy with an excellent quality of life.
Why do you resent this?

Esspee

Onthemoors

So I was put onto HRT tablets in late 40's, I was Post Menopausal. Told I could take it for 5 years max, which I did. Now 18 years later, I'm fine not taking anything, just worried about my bone health as I have Osteopaenia. So, perhaps I should ask if I can restart at 68, or not necessary. I never suffered any problems and it's great not having any more periods.

If you have sufficient oestrogen (a natural hormone that your body is accustomed to) your bones don’t thin. If you allow them to disintegrate through lack of oestrogen then you will have to take a cocktail of drugs to try to maintain sufficient bone mass to prevent the downward slide into osteoporosis. There is also the risk of osteoarthritis and I am unaware of any drugs which repair the cartilage.
Whether it is too late to restart oestrogen only a medical professional can say as everyone is different.
I have a great deal of sympathy for anyone suffering from osteoporosis. It greatly affected my mother’s final years and resulted in a very poor quality of life.
I hope you get the help you need.

Sorry osteoporosis is not a sentence to a poor quality of life, it is treatable with drugs which specifically target your bones and leave the rest of your body alone. Ostepenia is not necessarily the precursor of osteoporosis. Your bone density can be increased by weight bearing exercise and calcium supplements. I've written my history. I had osteoporosis. My mother had advanced osteoporosis, lived to be 94, terrible record of fractures, but lived an active life well into her 90s.
You could go on oestrogen but in my opinion drugs are never a good alternative to building a healthy body through supplements and exercise.

Onthemoors

So I was put onto HRT tablets in late 40's, I was Post Menopausal. Told I could take it for 5 years max, which I did. Now 18 years later, I'm fine not taking anything, just worried about my bone health as I have Osteopaenia. So, perhaps I should ask if I can restart at 68, or not necessary. I never suffered any problems and it's great not having any more periods.

If you have sufficient oestrogen (a natural hormone that your body is accustomed to) your bones don’t thin. If you allow them to disintegrate through lack of oestrogen then you will have to take a cocktail of drugs to try to maintain sufficient bone mass to prevent the downward slide into osteoporosis. There is also the risk of osteoarthritis and I am unaware of any drugs which repair the cartilage.
Whether it is too late to restart oestrogen only a medical professional can say as everyone is different.
I have a great deal of sympathy for anyone suffering from osteoporosis. It greatly affected my mother’s final years and resulted in a very poor quality of life.
I hope you get the help you need.

Onthemoors I'd say take more weight bearing exercise- Tai-chi is great and make sure you have a calcium supplement. I had osteoporosis at 55 was treated with a specific drug treatment and took up tai-chi. By 65+ I had osteopenia (I was actually glad to have it) and was off the drugs, by 70+ normal to good bone density. I take a calcium supplement and now do Pilates.

So I was put onto HRT tablets in late 40's, I was Post Menopausal. Told I could take it for 5 years max, which I did. Now 18 years later, I'm fine not taking anything, just worried about my bone health as I have Osteopaenia. So, perhaps I should ask if I can restart at 68, or not necessary. I never suffered any problems and it's great not having any more periods.

While I agree that HRT should be accessible to all women who want it and I have to say, I have had no problem getting it from my gp on the NHS. Starting firstly with a mirena coil when I first started going through peri menopause (for me, stopped my hair falling out) and I had so many horrible symptoms including being diagnosed as clinically depressed with generalised anxiety disorder. HRT was a godsend

HOWEVER yesterday I had to have a scan because during covid my coil effectiveness ran out and it was missed. So I’ve been having oestrogen patches without progesterone for 9 months. Now they’re worried.

So no, I don’t think it should be over the counter. I think it needs to be monitored.

Readily available, yes. Affordable, yes. I get 3 month supply if patches at a time on NHS for the fee of £9 and change. Think it’s a bargain.

I felt so intimidate by my old GP's negative attitude to HRT that once I had been on it for a couple of years I started to buy it from an on line source that did not ask any awkward questions. My symptoms were very severe and I could not have stayed in work if I'd been made to suffer without it. After 10 years I needed to see a gynaecologist for a minor matter and he was very helpful and told me my concerns were valid, that I could carry on with HRT for the rest of my life if I wanted and arranged for me to have a Mirena coil ( something I was not expecting at 65!) and estrogel to apply.
I now know that if GP gets awkward with me I could get a referral somewhere else and feel much more confident and happy about the situation.
Without HRT I smell different, feel anxious and the hot flushes return, I just don't feel as if I am myself. I'm very pleased I had that small polyp now, if I hadn't had to go to the hospital I'd still be changing my luck on line.

Esspee

*Trisher*. You’re flogging a dead horse by harping on about drug companies and premarin. Take it from those of us who have the intelligence to research what we put into our bodies and wish to be ethical that your argument is more than a quarter of a century out of date.
Oestrogen isn’t a money spinner for the drug companies any more than say insulin. There seems to be a misogynistic attitude that women are not entitled to relief from the symptoms of oestrogen loss. It helps so many well informed women lead full and healthy lives.
You need to ask yourself why oh why you resent that.

So could you list all the drugs which contain mare's urine Espee I very much doubt it. Premarin was the name originally used but now there are lots of other things. I challenge you to name them if you are so well informed.
Why on earth would you believe oestrogen isn't a money spinner for drug companies? Take it by all means but be aware of who you are funding by doing so
As a matter of fact insulin is also a money spinner for drug companies as there is substantial evidence that the best thing to prevent type 2 diabetes is a change in diet.
I don't resent anything. I do think women should ask why they should be expected to take a substance their body has essentially finished with, because there is a period where their symptoms make things a little difficult. I've no doubt it is much easier if a woman takes a drug and stays quiet than if she asks for her workplace to accommodate her hot flushes by say, allowing her to reduce the temperature, or even open a window. I've no doubt it is a lot easier if you can shut up a woman who finds some aspect of her life is distressing her by giving her a drug to take. It used to be anti-depressants, now it's hormones. Different substance, same objective keep women from being difficult.
The problem is that some will spend almost 50 years on those drugs. I simply believe if you treat any conditions, know the aeging process and what helps alleviate the problems it brings, and establish a healthy lifestyle, you stand much more chance of living a healthy old age. Diet, exercise, exploring new things, staying active are more important than any hormonal treatment.

If you can spare two minutes, do fill in the survey, this will inform the decision making. If you feel HRT in general (not just the cream or pessaries) should be available in pharmacies, then you can add that in!
www.surveys.mhra.gov.uk/61f9094608ff8900e33fdd57