HRT to be sold over the counter!

Fashionista, If a woman presents to her GP with symptoms of the menopause and is peri menopausal,NICE now recommend that HRT is prescribed without carrying out blood tests.

I think it's a ruse to make women pay for HRT. Once it's available over the pharmacy counter, GPs will want to save money for their practice and many won't prescribe it. The WASPI women will lose out yet again.
In my case it's vital. I have had recurrent pelvic and urinary tract pain which is debilitating for many weeks and even months when I get it. Vagifem pessaries were prescribed by a Gynae Consultant several years ago after a particularly bad bout. He thought that it would help with vaginal atrophy but I didn't use them as I was afraid I might be sensitive to the medication and the pain might start again. I was ok for a bit then I had an even worse bout during the first Lockdown, had a D & C but the horrible pain persisted until I remembered the pessaries which produced an improvement fairly quickly. I have had them on prescription since then and I think I would have to live in horrible pain without them. But why should older women/pensioners have to pay for a vital medication? My husband doesn't have to pay for his prostate medication. I shall certainly be out on the streets protesting with a large banner detailing the state of my vagina. But oh no! This government is trying to ban peaceful protest.

Humbley

Sounds like my new dr , he won't let me have anything since he came along before that I had a lovely lady Dr who put me on a hrt as my original ones weren't helping the new ones lady dr gave me helped me the most no sweats no itchy skin no foggy headedness. Now I'm getting all symptoms back and he is making me have tests that I've already had and he won't listen to me I feel worthless now

Humbley. May I offer you a big hug. It is appalling that you should be made to feel worthless by your doctor.
Is there another doctor in the practice you could ask to see? If not you need to ask for a referral to a menopause clinic. There you will be seen by a consultant who is better informed.
Your GP should explain why he has decided to take you off a medication which has been helping you. Unless he has a compelling reason then you need to dig your heels in and insist on a referral.
Google NICE guidelines on the menopause. That’s the NHS best practice update for doctors. If you go in knowing what you are talking about you will get his attention.
Many women print it off and offer it to the doctor to great effect. Be assertive and good luck.

Trisher. You’re flogging a dead horse by harping on about drug companies and premarin. Take it from those of us who have the intelligence to research what we put into our bodies and wish to be ethical that your argument is more than a quarter of a century out of date.
Oestrogen isn’t a money spinner for the drug companies any more than say insulin. There seems to be a misogynistic attitude that women are not entitled to relief from the symptoms of oestrogen loss. It helps so many well informed women lead full and healthy lives.
You need to ask yourself why oh why you resent that.

I had to agree to have HRT in the form of an oestrogen tablet before the surgeon would agree to a radical hysterectomy as he didn't want me to suffer from Osteoporosis. It was the best thing that ever happened to me. Having suffered from the most terrible PMT all my life because of the drop in oestrogen and the increase in progesterone, I was "cured" when I started on the Oestrogen after the hysterectomy. No more terrible mood swings or depression. I tried to come off it once but never again. It was like having permanent, terrible PMT.

trisher I had no interest in looking younger and have always been very active, but I do know that hot flushes, disturbed sleep and mood swings made the last years of my very demanding career much harder. If I could have kept going with HRT for a few years it would have helped enormously.
I knew 20 years ago not to have HRT from mare's urine. It wasn't difficult to avoid.
Women need to be able to make informed choices. That's all.

Mamie

trisher if you had vaginal atrophy you would know. I had discomfort when sitting, extreme discomfort when walking, endless bouts of thrush and numerous cycles of antibiotics for urine infections. It took four months of treatment to get back to pre menopause normal.
Please don't minimise the very real distress caused by these conditions. It comes across as very patronising and I am sure you don't mean that.
I took HRT for a few years, stopped becauseof the dubious data from America and suffered for another ten years. I sailed through pregnancy and childbirth, but had a very difficult menopause. Luck of the draw.

Mamie of coure there are some conditions which will require medical intervention and I would never want to deprive any woman of treatment she really needed. I simply question if all of the conditions now being prescribed HRT for are anything to do with a lack of oestrogen and if prescribing it is in fact just a money spinner for drug companies.
I note that most drug companies now market drugs containing horses urine under different names in Western developed countries and have moved their horse suppliers to countries like China because women began to question the ethics of HRT drugs. The perception seems to be that women have somehow been restricted by drug companies and doctors, but I am well aware that drug companies actively promote their products to trainee and newly qualified doctors, which makes me wonder what came first the demands of women or the drug company products and I know which I believe.
There seems to be some perception by those taking HRT that they are somehow more active and look younger. A lot of the things I do I do with women 10 or even 15 years younger than me. Maybe I do look a lot older than them. I can't tell. I can't tell if they are taking HRT either. I know I'm not. I don't know how other people do know.

As MissA said this thread was about some form of HRT possibly become available OTC, like it has already happened with Viagra, and some contraceptive pills.

I have had a HRT and loved it! I am now on a form of it actually more for bladder issues. I am on 0.5 mg of estradiol. It is a miracle drug to relieve issues with bladder incontinence, discomfort, etc. I had no idea such a thing was available for application to that location, but it's wonderful! It worked so well I wished I could drink it through a straw for general purposes. This was prescribed by a urologist here in the US. It needs a prescription, but is fairly easy to get. It has made me so much more comfortable, confident, and has reduced my laundry load.

trisher if you had vaginal atrophy you would know. I had discomfort when sitting, extreme discomfort when walking, endless bouts of thrush and numerous cycles of antibiotics for urine infections. It took four months of treatment to get back to pre menopause normal.
Please don't minimise the very real distress caused by these conditions. It comes across as very patronising and I am sure you don't mean that.
I took HRT for a few years, stopped becauseof the dubious data from America and suffered for another ten years. I sailed through pregnancy and childbirth, but had a very difficult menopause. Luck of the draw.

Nobody has said anyone will be taking away HRT.
Just suggesting that is probably best prescribed by a doctor.

Premarin is a very old type of HRT . The new modern HRT is plant based and so much safer to use. Menopause is for the rest of a woman’s life . Women’s bodies really need Oestrogen to stay healthy . Mind and body ! So for me , I’m replacing what is lost - like insulin to a diabetic ? I’m doing it to stay health .

Vagifem is a tiny , very low oestrogen pessary , not a cream?

Sounds like my new dr , he won't let me have anything since he came along before that I had a lovely lady Dr who put me on a hrt as my original ones weren't helping the new ones lady dr gave me helped me the most no sweats no itchy skin no foggy headedness. Now I'm getting all symptoms back and he is making me have tests that I've already had and he won't listen to me I feel worthless now

Lizy

trisher

Incidently we shouldn't imagine that this is purely a Western or British problem, drug companies operate worldwide. The biggest market for HRT drugs now is China, where Premarin is currently being marketed and manufactured. www.all-creatures.org/articles2/ar-premarin-horses-china.html
So although you may feel your usage of HRT is justified you are buying into the drug companies marketing strategies and simply making them money.
My great grandmother, my GM and my mother all lived into their 90s and lived active lifestyles. This concept that you can tell someone on HRT is so misleading. No you can't. There are so many other factors involved. As for the idea that you need a drug to continue to live happily in the lifestyle you have problems with, why not just change your lifestyle? This would obviously change society a great deal, so perhaps that's why HRT is being so agressively marketed to women now. God forbid they should rock the boat.

For goodness sake! What has lifestyle to do with vaginal atrophy, night sweats, hot flushes, brain fog?
I don't feel I'm simply making the drug companies money. I am making an improvement to the very physical issues that menopause has caused me.

Well have you got all those things? I had hot flushes- coped with through adequate layers of clothing to strip off and opening windows all the time (something I continue to do but now it's Covid related). Night sweats and waking in the night feeling I wanted to do something. Mentally I trained myself to ignore the urges and accept it was night time and I needed to rest. I could have jumped up and cleaned or done other things but I know my own capabilities and I would have been wrecked the next day. Relaxation exercises helped enormously.
As for brain fog- is it really to do with disturbed sleep, or do you feel you don't want to do what you are doing? So would something else interest and involve you more? What exactly is brain fog anyway? I tend to try to learn new things which stimulates my brain. Started doing community dancing in my late 60s It's so good for my brain although I'm still, and always have been, hopelessly uncoordinated.
As for an atrophied vagina I really don't know. I think it's OK but who knows?

Having tried HRT on two separate occasions and on each occasion I was more or less bullied by my GP to stop which I did! So after many attempts to loose weight I gave up all refined sugary foods and do you know what……..the night sweats went, the brain fog lifted and I’m sleeping like a baby. May be something worth looking at trying before going down the HRT route? I know for many though that HRT is a life saver quite literally. Do what ever works for you.

If your on Instagram. Then follow Davina Mcall as she has done a QnA with a menopause Dr. The paper that you are all talking about that frightened everyone has ruined many women’s lives by preventing many drs from prescribing it and many women from taking it. It’s about time we got over this.I’m going to the drs next week to ask for my hormones back, to which we are all entitled to. Women stop suffering and get the help you deserve

trisher

Incidently we shouldn't imagine that this is purely a Western or British problem, drug companies operate worldwide. The biggest market for HRT drugs now is China, where Premarin is currently being marketed and manufactured. www.all-creatures.org/articles2/ar-premarin-horses-china.html
So although you may feel your usage of HRT is justified you are buying into the drug companies marketing strategies and simply making them money.
My great grandmother, my GM and my mother all lived into their 90s and lived active lifestyles. This concept that you can tell someone on HRT is so misleading. No you can't. There are so many other factors involved. As for the idea that you need a drug to continue to live happily in the lifestyle you have problems with, why not just change your lifestyle? This would obviously change society a great deal, so perhaps that's why HRT is being so agressively marketed to women now. God forbid they should rock the boat.

For goodness sake! What has lifestyle to do with vaginal atrophy, night sweats, hot flushes, brain fog?
I don't feel I'm simply making the drug companies money. I am making an improvement to the very physical issues that menopause has caused me.

Mildmanneredgran

All I can say is that for me, if I hadn't taken HRT, I would have been writing this from prison, where I would have been sent for murder. Sounds dramatic, but my symptoms, like so many others on this thread, were absolutely intolerable. I got my life back. As for the implications that HRT causes breast cancer, these theories have been completely discredited. I did indeed get breast cancer, but as I told my GP when he prescribed it, all the females in my family got it at around the same age, including my mum and grandmother, without HRT. The likelihood (to me, in any case) is that I would have got it anyway. The great benefit of having the breast cancer was that I went into "the system" - scanned for bone density every year, vitamin D supplements on prescription, etc. Obviously I don't consume any soya now! We are all different, however, and that should be respected.

Your experience is very valuable in helping to get rid of some of the myths and misunderstandings about HRT. Most people have heard that it has been linked to breast cancer but this was mainly because of the findings of the discredited 2002 Women's Health Initiative (WHI) trial in the USA. Things have changed since then and it is known that the risk of breast cancer is very low, less than, for example, drinking 2 glasses of wine a day, being overweight or not exercising. HRT is a choice for every woman. But it is very difficult for anyone to make that choice if they don't have the full story. This information is discussed for example, in Davina McCall's documentary on Channel 4 and can also be found on any evidence-based website, for example Dr Louise Newson's.

I have met Louise Newson for a consultation before she opened her Stratford practice. I have been there a few times and found them all to be so helpful and positive. I can recommend the Balance app and am so glad that I found what is has now become a very successful and busy practice when I needed it most. I have nothing but praise for they way they are myth busting and doing all they can to help understanding. There is so much ignorance and misunderstanding surrounding HRT.

Catherine59

Didolizzy

Would love to know how you get on as I’m in a similar position.

Hi Didolizzy, have a look at my recent post, hope it will help!

Hi Didolizzy, if you read my message on here (which I've copied below) you will see that I'm getting on very well indeed! Hope it helps you on your menopause journey.

(Copy of message below)

I am on HRT and have been for 4 years. For me, it’s been completely life changing - I had a lot of life-restricting symptoms that have now gone. When I started I went privately as getting it on the NHS was very difficult. About 6 months ago, after learning as much as I could about HRT and menopause, I asked my GP (equipped with the right information) and am now on free NHS prescriptions for body-identical HRT (I'm 62). There are so many long-term health benefits for getting back our own hormones, including reduced risk of osteoporosis, diabetes, heart disease and dementia.

I was prescribed Oestrogel (natural estradiol which is derived from yams absorbed through the skin and exactly replicates what is made by your body) and Utrogestan tablets (again, body identical).

If you want evidence-based information about HRT there are several experts online and also some very good books which have come out very recently. I would highly recommend Dr Louise Newson, a GP who is an HRT specialist. She set up a private (not-for-profit) clinic www.newsonhealth.co.uk because she couldn't get funding from the NHS. She also set up the Menopause Charity menopausecharity.org with other specialists to ‘bust myths, overcome ignorance and make menopause symptoms history’ . Her free App called Balance has a lot of information and a really useful questionnaire (there’s also one on the Menopause Charity website) so you can track your symptoms and then print and take with you to your GP. There are factsheets on her website and podcasts which cover many menopause related subjects/issues. She is on a mission to help women get back their natural hormones and improve their lives and their future health and was on Good Morning Britain and also included in Davina MacCall’s Channel 4 documentary ‘Sex, Myths and the Menopause’ last year which was ground breaking and which you can still watch online. Actually, I'm surprised Louise hasn't been mentioned on here already. I have not met her, have no affiliation with her but think she’s doing an amazing job.

All I can say is that for me, if I hadn't taken HRT, I would have been writing this from prison, where I would have been sent for murder. Sounds dramatic, but my symptoms, like so many others on this thread, were absolutely intolerable. I got my life back. As for the implications that HRT causes breast cancer, these theories have been completely discredited. I did indeed get breast cancer, but as I told my GP when he prescribed it, all the females in my family got it at around the same age, including my mum and grandmother, without HRT. The likelihood (to me, in any case) is that I would have got it anyway. The great benefit of having the breast cancer was that I went into "the system" - scanned for bone density every year, vitamin D supplements on prescription, etc. Obviously I don't consume any soya now! We are all different, however, and that should be respected.

MissAdventure

Messing around with hormones isn't to be done lightly, in my opinion.
I think it's a terrible idea.

I must say that I agree with this in most cases. I still don't seem to be post menopausal though I am 70 now, but I would not take HRT unless I had very extreme symptoms.

FarNorth

^Out of my friends (mostly 50s and 60s with a couple of 70 Yr olds) you can tell which ones are on hrt and which aren't.^

How can you tell? Do you know for a fact that you have guessed right?
I have never had hrt and I think I'm fine, fairly fit & supple and not needing any medication only a multivitamin.
Perhaps it's because I use a lot of soya products, including soya milk. Or just my good luck.

Your good luck. I have lots of soya products but the menopause has been difficult in many ways. Definitely consider yourself lucky.

No way put on a stone in two months rather have any symptons than being fat