HRT to be sold over the counter!

Well I won't be posting any more threads on this forum as it has become very time consuming. As I said originally women should do their own research and make up their own minds.

NHS

Silverlady333

Ha ha this thread reminds me of that Nigella Lawson and Holistic nutritionist Gillian Mckeith picture!

Not sure why. Can't stand either of them.

Ha ha this thread reminds me of that Nigella Lawson and Holistic nutritionist Gillian Mckeith picture!

I don't regard this as some sort of competition Espee why would I? Simply a matter of posting accurate info about HRT, which is undoubtedly a treatment for certain medical conditions but isn't the fount of youth or the cure-all it is sometimes presented as. Women have been over medicated by the drug industry for donkey's years, from laudanum, through Valium and now on HRT. Questioning that has strong feminist roots and involved people like Betty Friedman www.vice.com/en/article/gqmx9j/here-lady-take-some-pills-for-your-hysteria-253

That should read ……You are clearly one of those people (I remember them well from primary school) who feels that having the last word means that you have won.

trisher

Espee it. might help if you could actually read posts!
Firstly Osteopenia does NOT necessitate drug treatment. Osteoporosis DOES. I had Osteoporosis treated with targetted drugs, reduced to Osteopenia which needed weight bearing exercise and calcium and Vitamin D. I now have good bone density better than most people my age and lots of people younger than me. Most Osteopenia can be tackled the same way and that is what the ROS recommend.
I don't care what you take. I don't care what you do with your body.
I do care that you have posted several misrepresentations of what happens to people with Osteopenia and Osteoporosis and described the drug treatment recommended by the Royal Osteoporosis Society as a "cocktail of drugs" when it is in fact usually one targetted drug for a short period. I realise that you are still obviously very upset about your mother's death, but that is no reason to post misleading and inaccurate information. My mother lived with Osteoporosis as well which is why I sought and received the treatment I needed
When I provide information I always do so with a link so people can read it for themselves. Why you feel this is mysoginistic I have no idea. It does seem that you take any criticism of HRT personally which is rather a strange attitude to take.
I too think women should have access to facts which is why I always post links, something you are unable to do so you are in fact doing exactly what you accuse me of, presenting your opinions as fact with nothing to back them up.
There is in fact little information about the longer term effects of HRT although most information advises it should not be taken for over 10 years and taking oral medication longer term may not be advisable for anyone with a family history of strokes or of blood clots, as my mother had a DVT and an aunt had a PE I certainly wouldn't take it.
www.healthline.com/health-news/hrt-tablets-increase-risk-of-blood-clots-in-women#HRT-options-explained

I may not have provided links but I have either provided photographs of the information I am quoting from e.g. the ROP info. or in the case of the cataract research I provided the reference and specified an easy way to bring up each and every reference cited.
You are clearly one of these people (I remember them well from primary school) who feels that having the last word means you’ve one.
Pathetic.

trisher

About cataracts
Estrogen receptors have been detected in the eye's lens, the area that becomes cloudy and inflexible when a cataract develops. Naturally occurring (endogenous) estrogen appears to protect the eye from cataract, along with guarding cardiovascular and other body systems before menopause. Exogenous estrogens like those used in HRT do not function the same way. For example, HRT increases C-reactive protein levels, associated with cataract development in other studies. Dr. Lindblad's study also describes how alcohol and HRT may interact to raise estradiol levels, which appears to affect cataract risk.
www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/03/100301122326.htm#:~:text=Alcohol%20consumption%20seemed%20to%20increase%20HRT's%20harmful%20effect.&text=FULL%20STORY-,An%20eight%2Dyear%20prospective%20study%20of%20more%20than%2030%2C000%20postmenopausal,who%20had%20never%20used%20HRT.

I refer you back to my previous response where I quoted from 3 of the many studies which found just the opposite, there are many more. I did give references to each of the statements.
When one study states the opposite of every other study on the subject then clearly more research is needed.

Hippie20

NICE has advised gps that women can in most circumstances take hrt for life which is what I can do. Not 10 years as you state. However it is preferable to have the oestrogen via a gel on your arm and a bio identical progesterone which is what I take. So another "fact" that is incorrect.

Hippie.
Was that combination prescribed by the NHS or did you have to go private?

NICE has advised gps that women can in most circumstances take hrt for life which is what I can do. Not 10 years as you state. However it is preferable to have the oestrogen via a gel on your arm and a bio identical progesterone which is what I take. So another "fact" that is incorrect.

About cataracts
Estrogen receptors have been detected in the eye's lens, the area that becomes cloudy and inflexible when a cataract develops. Naturally occurring (endogenous) estrogen appears to protect the eye from cataract, along with guarding cardiovascular and other body systems before menopause. Exogenous estrogens like those used in HRT do not function the same way. For example, HRT increases C-reactive protein levels, associated with cataract development in other studies. Dr. Lindblad's study also describes how alcohol and HRT may interact to raise estradiol levels, which appears to affect cataract risk.
www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/03/100301122326.htm#:~:text=Alcohol%20consumption%20seemed%20to%20increase%20HRT's%20harmful%20effect.&text=FULL%20STORY-,An%20eight%2Dyear%20prospective%20study%20of%20more%20than%2030%2C000%20postmenopausal,who%20had%20never%20used%20HRT.

Espee it. might help if you could actually read posts!
Firstly Osteopenia does NOT necessitate drug treatment. Osteoporosis DOES. I had Osteoporosis treated with targetted drugs, reduced to Osteopenia which needed weight bearing exercise and calcium and Vitamin D. I now have good bone density better than most people my age and lots of people younger than me. Most Osteopenia can be tackled the same way and that is what the ROS recommend.
I don't care what you take. I don't care what you do with your body.
I do care that you have posted several misrepresentations of what happens to people with Osteopenia and Osteoporosis and described the drug treatment recommended by the Royal Osteoporosis Society as a "cocktail of drugs" when it is in fact usually one targetted drug for a short period. I realise that you are still obviously very upset about your mother's death, but that is no reason to post misleading and inaccurate information. My mother lived with Osteoporosis as well which is why I sought and received the treatment I needed
When I provide information I always do so with a link so people can read it for themselves. Why you feel this is mysoginistic I have no idea. It does seem that you take any criticism of HRT personally which is rather a strange attitude to take.
I too think women should have access to facts which is why I always post links, something you are unable to do so you are in fact doing exactly what you accuse me of, presenting your opinions as fact with nothing to back them up.
There is in fact little information about the longer term effects of HRT although most information advises it should not be taken for over 10 years and taking oral medication longer term may not be advisable for anyone with a family history of strokes or of blood clots, as my mother had a DVT and an aunt had a PE I certainly wouldn't take it.
www.healthline.com/health-news/hrt-tablets-increase-risk-of-blood-clots-in-women#HRT-options-explained

Trisher. I note you have not responded to the challenge to show where I ever stated the comments you attributed to me. You lied, I called you out and you have gone off on a tangent.

As for your latest. Did you not, on this very thread, tell us that you were diagnosed as having osteoporosis and had to take drugs to strengthen your bones? Osteopenia is simply the early stages of osteoporosis. It is a sliding scale. Once your bone density is -1 to -2.5 this is considered osteopenia, from -2.5 or below it is called osteoporosis. It is not two different conditions, just a measurement of how far down the path you are. Anyone who researches their condition understands that.
My mother died a horrible death thanks to this condition. I know what I am talking about.

I have chosen the path of using HRT to prevent this, and all the other horrible long term effects of low oestrogen e.g. vaginal atrophy, incontinence, osteoarthritis, prolapse, depression, low libido, UTIs, cataracts (thank you for reminding me of that) etc.
You clearly resent this. I will be spending more than one third of my life post menopausal. Modern medicine has given us the solution and whether or not you approve there are an increasing number of very intelligent women who have researched the subject, made a decision, and are now glowingly happy.
I don’t care how a woman decides to handle her personal menopause as long as she has access to the facts.
What I object to vehemently is people like you spouting misinformation dressed up as fact.
You are out of date, uninformed and a very dangerous person on a site like this.
I will call you out on every lie you tell on this subject so think twice before writing anything. By all means give your opinion but don’t dress up your misogynistic attitudes as fact.

Espee you said and it is the second time I have quoted it
If you allow them to disintegrate through lack of oestrogen then you will have to take a cocktail of drugs to try to maintain sufficient bone mass to prevent the downward slide into osteoporosis
This is a completely unsupported allegation which might cause real distress to anyone who has been diagnosed with Osteopenia . The ROS guidelines advise dietary supplements and weight bearing exercise may deal with the problem without any drug intervention. I have already posted this information which you have chosen to ignore because it doesn't fit your preconceptions.
If you feel my posts are a danger to other GNers then feel free to report me. Personally I think other people are quite able to read posts and make their own judgements. It's a pity you don't regard them as able o do so.

patrish

I am 77 and still on on hrt, -decided 20 years ago not to argue with refusenik doctor.I have been buying them on the internet,and yes they are genuine and I still have a waistline and look younger than I am .

I hope to still be taking it when I'm that age.
The way I look at it, I could live for 40 more years after menopause.
Why should i spend almost half my life without the very hormones that make me female?
The only thing that replaces hormones are Hormones.
Menopace, soya milk and all the rest -that are supposed to help, are a poor substitute for actual hormones.
And this business of it being a natural process?
Natural processes can have lots of nasty side effects.
Hrt protects the heart, bones, the spine.
Women on hrt are less likely to lose height and develop dowager hump as they age, because oestrogen puts collagen back in the matrix.
And it can help stave off dementia.

trisher

Hippie20

You present a lot of supposed facts which are open to misrepresentation. Say what you like most women on hrt are protected from oestrophsis which is is a leading cause in post menopausal women. You make lots of statements without sufficient data to back it up. I would suggest that satins which are routinely prescribed have a lot more side effects than hrt. Your misinformation does a great disservice to women on this site seeking advice.

I have always backed up my statements with links Hippi20 I haven't made unsubstantiated scaremongering assertions like "osteopenia always leads to osteoporosis" or "women on HRT take better care of their health and so refer for cataracts more". As a matter of fact I don't take statins either and wouldn't recommend anyone else to unless their doctor insisted they were essential. It's not a disservice to women to warn them about the downside of something, it is considering them sensible enough and wise enough to take the decision which is right for them, in the full knowledge of all the facts and without the pressure exerted by the media and drug companies, who want us all to comply with some strange perpetually young concept of women, possibly because the idea of women who are not hormonal is a scarey one.

Well said Hippie20. Trisher is a past master in the art of twisting what someone says then criticising her incorrect version of it. For example she states that I said that osteopaenia always leads to osteoporosis. I challenge her to tell us where I said that.
Many elderly women have osteopaenia which is treated to prevent it getting worse. I said it is the thin edge of the wedge but she doesn’t let that get in the way of her twisting of the truth.
She backs up her statements with links which if you care to read them you find out they say just the opposite of the point she is inventing.
trisher’s inventions are not just a disservice but an actual danger to other gransnetters.

Hippie20

You present a lot of supposed facts which are open to misrepresentation. Say what you like most women on hrt are protected from oestrophsis which is is a leading cause in post menopausal women. You make lots of statements without sufficient data to back it up. I would suggest that satins which are routinely prescribed have a lot more side effects than hrt. Your misinformation does a great disservice to women on this site seeking advice.

I have always backed up my statements with links Hippi20 I haven't made unsubstantiated scaremongering assertions like "osteopenia always leads to osteoporosis" or "women on HRT take better care of their health and so refer for cataracts more". As a matter of fact I don't take statins either and wouldn't recommend anyone else to unless their doctor insisted they were essential. It's not a disservice to women to warn them about the downside of something, it is considering them sensible enough and wise enough to take the decision which is right for them, in the full knowledge of all the facts and without the pressure exerted by the media and drug companies, who want us all to comply with some strange perpetually young concept of women, possibly because the idea of women who are not hormonal is a scarey one.

You present a lot of supposed facts which are open to misrepresentation. Say what you like most women on hrt are protected from oestrophsis which is is a leading cause in post menopausal women. You make lots of statements without sufficient data to back it up. I would suggest that satins which are routinely prescribed have a lot more side effects than hrt. Your misinformation does a great disservice to women on this site seeking advice.

I think there seem to be quite a lot of women pharmasists about now so perhaps that will help.

Agree Silverlady always easier than seeing a GP, male or female, in any case!

BlueSky Sun 06-Feb-22 18:29:46

Agree Silverlady but as I mentioned on my post above, will we be able to just pick it up off the shelf or will we need to speak to the pharmacist first, which would defeat the purpose for shy ladies!

Well they can always go to a pharmacy with a female pharmacist if need be.
Trying to specify you want to see a female GP is mission impossible!
I expect it will get to be like Thrush treatments where you are simply asked if you have used it before. The pharmacists have rules and regulations too and an obligation to make sure the customer knows what they are buying.

So now women who don't use HRT don't bother about cataracts either! Honestly Espee I've heard of desperation but really!
I know several people who have had or are waiting for cataract operations. I don't know that any of them use HRT but they may do. My friend is the youngest only early 50s and it was her who said it was linked to alcohol use and no one had bothered to tell her when she went on it.
By all means use HRT but stop pretending it is the be-all and end-all for every possible condition older women might have, admit that there may be undesirable side effects and that as long as they are aware of them it is up to women to choose , but they should also be aware of the benefits of a healthy lifestyle, and just might choose that instead.

Agree Silverlady but as I mentioned on my post above, will we be able to just pick it up off the shelf or will we need to speak to the pharmacist first, which would defeat the purpose for shy ladies!

trisher
Regarding your statement that if you drink alcohol when taking HRT your chances of getting a cataract increase hugely.
I cannot dispute whether your friend was told that but I did join a discussion forum after that piece of Swedish research was published and there were at that point far more published research results which stated the contrary.
e.g. “ data from our studies and other studies suggest that the reduction in the risk of lens opacities may be an additional benefit of post menopausal oestrogen use” Katherine Worzala et al, The Framingham Studies, JAMA.
“oestrogen provides protection against cataract….and adds to an increasing body of evidence that HRT protects post menopausal women against various diseases.” Angela M Hales et al www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
“Post menopausal hormone use may play a protective role in cataract development” Kairan Lai et al. PLOS ONE

I apologise for not being able to do links but just Google “oestrogen and cataracts” to get up these and many other papers on the subject.

The Swedish study, the only one I know of to link heavy alcohol use and HRT to raised numbers of cataract removals was the topic of a forum in which it was pointed out that women on HRT are usually in better health for their age and highly proactive when it comes to their health so would naturally tend to choose to have their cataracts removed rather than put up with compromised vision.

trisher
Osteopaenia is what my mother’s doctor called the thin edge of the wedge for osteoporosis. She didn’t get treatment at that point but had she insisted she might have avoided descent into full blown osteoporosis. I have taken preemptive steps to ensure this does not happen to me.