I can feel the tears brewing in my eyes......

BlueBelle
You do not know what others have shed tears over or not.

volver

Spelling is all to pot this morning, sorry, but you know what I mean.

Yes, I completely agree with you.

I also feel like our own government has contributed to the situation too and it has most probably contributed to how insecure and anxious some people feel, especially after a pandemic.

Spelling is all to pot this morning, sorry, but you know what I mean.

The first casualty of war is truth, didn't somebody say that once?

I think that the criticism of people who say that they are more affected by what is happening to people in Ukraine is misplaced. Of course its more affecting. We've had peace in Europe for 80 years. I'm aware of the conflicts in the Balkans but there has been no existential thread to Europe for 80 years. But now we've got an invasion of a sovereign country by another larger, more powerful neighbour for no other reason that to feed the ego of a man who wants to go down in history and has a chip on his shoulder about Mother Russia. We can see that the people who are affected had lives just like ours, the night before their invasion they were going to the cinema and eating in restaurants. We look at Kyiv and see Prague, or Vienna, or Helsinki. Places where I have visited and where I know people.

Its not right to take the moral high ground and criticise people for "not caring" about Syrians, or Rohingya, or any others. We wouldn't be human if we didn't think a conflict in Europe was something to be devastated about. And I'm afraid anybody who says otherwise is just trying to prove a point., or doesn't really understand the situation.

Neither do I like the fact that the 500 plus black students who are in Ukraine and trying to get out are being turned away from the countries so rightly offering support and homes to Ukrainians

I don't think the problem is that the students are black, I think the problem is that they were students visiting Ukraine on visas and, whilst they were fleeing Ukraine, they will now be able to go back to their home countries.
They will be be relieved to do so and I hope they are given every assistance to get back home. Their studies have come to an abrupt end and they will be able to decide on their futures, unlike Ukrainians who have no idea what to expect.

The reason I think I feel even more anxious and upset this time is because it is happening in Europe (again) and there is the threat of nuclear weapons being used.

Yes; exactly this. Ukraine is geographically much closer to us and it's much clearer to see the threat of nuclear war affecting us all. But feeling a closer connection to a country because it's geographically closer to us shouldn't be interpreted that the wars in other, more distant continents mean less to us; its perfectly possible to empathise and sympathise with both without being castigated by the thought police for perceived racism. Every one of us will be dealing with this tragedy in our own way and no one has the right to tell you what to think or what to say; we can safely leave that in Putin's hands.

BlueBelle - to add supporting the people of Ukraine doesn’t mean not caring about racism

Iam64

Please don’t assume I wasn’t weeping over Syria

me neither! All war and human suffering is horrible

Violetsky you did say to Granny23:
I hope you have apologised to your daughter for saying that

Then you said:
I cannot apologise for my honest reaction to someone else's words

^Granny23 doesn't need to apologise to her DD for saying that and it is not our business to suggest she does, even if we feel differently.

Please don’t assume I wasn’t weeping over Syria

I am shocked that people are crying now but didn’t shed their tears when the Syrians were being and still are bombed out of their homes and having to flee with their babes in arms to get out of their country
Granny23 s post maybe honest but I don’t like it one bit

Neither do I like the fact that the 500 plus black students who are in Ukraine and trying to get out are being turned away from the countries so rightly offering support and homes to Ukrainians
Why do you have to have visited the country to feel empathy why do you have more empathy for nearby countries than those that look different… ffs don’t we all have a heart and bleed the same
I have no understanding of views like these and really feel more at one with people from outer space than people who look like me and hold such horrible views

I think Granny23 was honest although I do feel differently and have wept over other wars and crises, sometimes tears of impotent rage.
She is honest and I can understand why she might feel like that.

The reason I think I feel even more anxious and upset this time is because it is happening in Europe (again) and there is the threat of nuclear weapons being used.

Also upset by all the ghastly things happening, and so would the Russian people be if they were allowed to know about it.

I decided that I'd done what I could to help for now and that the only way to deal with it for myself was to do something positive for my little bit of the world, so joined a litter-picking group on Saturday morning.

I also agree that Granny’s post was honest, as was Violetskys but being honest I don’t agree with Granny. I am not going to say what I think on this thread as at the moment I am very emotional about my daughter.

When I visited Vietnam, I definitely felt closer to the country and the people. In the seventies Vietnam felt very far away. Although who could ever forget that picture of the little girl running screaming down the road with her skin peeling off. The result of a napalm bomb I think. But when I stood on Vietnamese soil I felt so much closer to what had happened even though it was so long ago.

I also agree that Granny23’s post is very honest and I feel understandable. I too feel that Ukraine is so much closer to home, many of us may have visited because it’s possible to drive there and a short flight away. Also it’s Europe, which just like the Balkans war, is geographically our continent. Yes, the people look like us, but I don’t think that it’s necessary for the victims to look like us in order for us to feel pity and to feel shocked at what’s happening. It’s definitely the closeness of the country. And the fear also that Putin could attack the whole of Europe, including the UK, and that attack would likely be nuclear. In other words we could be drawn in.

I understood what Granny23 meant too. Because of the freedom of movement within the EU we will have worked with and become friends with many people directly or indirectly involved in all this too. It is horrifying.

Agree with people reflecting on the Uk connection with Ukraine
Another thing, many of us will have had grandfathers fighting in Europe in ww1 and parents in WW2. Watching the exodus from Ukraine had me reflecting on my grandfathers and my dad, peace loving men who saw ww1 as a desperate disaster and WW2 as a war that had to be fought. “ there was no negotiating with Hitler” was their view
The build up to the tanks rolling into Ukraine had me reflecting on 1938

The other thing is that in Syria, Lebanon, Myanmar, they are not places we can give real tangible help for, give things away, go and deliver them to collction points. All we can do is give money, we are distanced, fill a form in transfer money, so impersonal and distanced

We certainly could send goods for Syrian refugees, there are charities in Turkey who are helping, brave volunteers were making runs into Idlib with goods and flour to help set up bakeries. I was helping for years (but got told off on GN for "virtue signalling when I posted about it with a link to a charity) Syria hasn't gone away, btw

I agree, travelsafar. It's horribly worrying. I fear and dread that this war might spread. I can't believe that my early life was all about European war (I was born in 1937) and now might end
with another one. It's sickening. All those poor innocent people being killed or having to flee their country.
I hate Putin.

I watch the news everyday, reluctantly but it is the very least I can do to try and understand the situation, and it propels me into taking action, as in making more donations for aid.

Another one who agrees with Granny 23 for her honest post.

I think the other reason we feel emotional about Ukraine is because it is reachable by land from here.

I f we look back at those causes that have caused so much emotion over the years: Roumanian orphans, back to 1956 and refugees from the Hungarian up rising, we felt we could give practical hope, people drove there with lorries and came back with personal stories.

The other thing is that in Syria, Lebanon, Myanmar, they are not places we can give real tangible help for, give things away, go and deliver them to collction points. All we can do is give money, we are distanced, fill a form in transfer money, so impersonal and distanced.

In the more distanced cases, the cause and sides of the problem are all internal, not self-inflicted, but arguments between two national sides. With Ukraine they have been attacked one sidedly by a bigger stronger nation with no excuses except territorial acquistion.

In Roumania it was the truly appalling conditions of thousands of innocent small children handed over to state care because contraceptives were forbidden their parents and every extra baby, brought families to starvation point.

In Hungary it was 100s of thousands of mainly young people between 15-25, who fled their country and needed help and support.

Yes, of course we care about those who we can empathise with, whose homes and lives are so close to ours. It is an instinctive survival requirement that kicks in the recognise those nearest us and be suspicious of the unfamiliar.

Like many I so wish that the Russian people would rise up and get rid of Putin - by any means. However, a poster on a thread a day or so ago said that the Russian people see their army as 'liberating' Ukraine - they are fed only what the government wants them to hear, and they are probably unaware of what is really going on - although that is hard to accept given the level of private communications we have today.
I too am heartily sick of posters telling others what they can say - or think. If someone wants to post their feelings and opinions, then they must be allowed to do so - and if others don't like it, then tough. Telling people that they can't say certain things or 'need to apologise' is making my blood boil right now, and is in many ways emulating Putin. Those who are shouting down others while teetering on their soap boxes and declaring their half baked woke theories might like to remember that this is a forum for debate - not a platform for bullies.

I try not to watch the news these days. If I ever get depressed it affects my health and I am at the point of tears rather often lately.
I remember how I felt around the time of the Cuban crisis, now a whole lifetime has passed and we are back to the same sort of scenario.
Why does humankind not learn?