Vagina Museum

Re.DetransitionAwarenessDay - there are approx 26,000 desisters/detransitioners on the appropriate sub-Reddit. I have no way of knowing how many are genuine, but believe women like Sinead Watson (a detransitioner) when she says there are thousands that are genuine.
None of the detransitioned women posting their stories on Twitter say that social/family pressure was a reason to detransition. They all say they had gender dysphoria, and were offered no alternative treatment for this other than drugs/surgery. Sadly, their dysphoria wasn’t cured. Other main reasons for detransitioning is that they realised that they had associated mental health problems and or autism which exacerbated the dysphoria, but these problems still existed as trans men. Some of them were sexually abused and thought they’d be safer as trans men. Also, the testosterone/other drugs they took caused huge problems for a lot of them. And they nearly all deeply, deeply regret having had double mastectomies, and some of them have had or are going to have reconstruction.
Some of Watson’s posts are heart-breaking, she’s been left with a deep, manly sounding voice, she has no breasts, if I recall she’s also infertile. But she is happy to be a woman.

Read -and these are only a few. It’s far more important than whether you use a different pronoun. If you don’t like it, ask GN to delete it.
______

“I DO acknowledge I made the choice to transition, but it shouldn’t have been allowed in the first place! Removing healthy body parts to treat a mental health issue? Telling an 18-year-old girl that cross sex hormones would fix her? Why shouldn’t I blame the people who allowed this? 

I saw a handful of therapists to start transitioning. None of them tried to work with me through my dysphoria. None told me that dysphoria can go away naturally, or that there are options other than biomedical. I was 18. F***.”

I recognize now that trans ideology sold me on the idea that I could identify into the powerful group. I was hurt knowing I couldn’t marry a woman at that time. Hurt that I couldn’t have a family that looked like the only families I had seen until then. The idea I could identify out of oppression and be a straight man instead, felt liberating. There are few studies behind detransition rates, but I can tell you that there are thousands of us. Our voices are hidden because we’re seen by the queer community as an inconvenient consequence of their movement. We are just collateral damage for the greater good. Many, maybe most, are gender nonconforming lesbians…. Most desisted at the same age as me, around age 25. This is not a coincidence. This is the age your brain becomes fully developed.
——————

I can't believe I was allowed to get a mastectomy at 18 and suicidal nonetheless. I don't know why I wasn't stopped when I panicked before the surgery. I don't know why my psychologist didn't question me or try to get me to reflect on the choice more than "I don't like my breasts so they have to come off".

I didn't like the way they looked. I didn't like the way they felt. I felt gross. I think I could've learned to like them. I wish I would've gotten help in loving myself and accepting my body instead of changing the bits I didn't like. My body wasn't even done growing when I got them cut off.”

________________

“I discovered the online trans community, who enabled my feeling of self-hatred and led me to believe that transitioning was the cure all to all of my problems. … [I] realized that transitioning had not fixed any of my problems.

Are you now policing language? Rosie51 hahahaha this from the person who is so "inclusive language" "birthing person" is preferable to mother etc Are you for real trisher or is this another TTP post, it's so hard to tell?

Most people would think that drastic irreversible surgery should only come after extensive counselling. Listen to Kiera Bell, Sinead Watson and so many others and how they were let down and then consider if you need to listen more, preach less. This is people's lives that were destroyed, they aren't part of your propaganda program. Ask Lauren Black, a butch lesbian in a loving relationship who is told by TRAs she should transition to a man to ease her dysphoria, despite her telling them she's a woman. I despair.

*So what are you questioning Doodledog the statements from people detransitioning that it was social pressures?
Isn't that really adding to their already massive problems ?
Or someone actually daring to record their statements?
Or that it doesn't fit your personal views?*

None of the above. I do wish you would stop putting words into my mouth.

Doodledog

*One of the main reasons given for detransitioning is social pressure and family opposition which means acceptance is still a problem.*
Not that it was a mistake in the first place? Not that binding the chests of children is the thin end of a dubious wedge? Or that telling them that it is possible to change sex is leading them down the wrong path?

No, of course not - it has to be prejudice and lack of acceptance. It has to be the fault of everyone and everything except the ideology.

The link between trans children and autism has been known for some time. Unless there have been developments I've missed, it is not known whether the link is correlation or causation, but it is there. Similarly, the links with confusion around sexuality.

So what are you questioning Doodledog the statements from people detransitioning that it was social pressures?
Isn't that really adding to their already massive problems ?
Or someone actually daring to record their statements?
Or that it doesn't fit your personal views?
The website I linked to is written by established journalists and there are links at the bottom to the research that informed their writing.

It is interesting that in spite of all the posts on here about how gender isn't an actuality, the exploration of gender, the language which surrounds it, and the efforts of people to find what is right for them is dismissed so easily.

Isn't it right for a journalist to discuss and explain the language people are using? Are you now policing language? Rosie51

I can see nothing to crow about, nothing to think of as positive in the whole situation. When there are young people accessing drugs on line or on the street because they don't want to share their transgender problem with their family doctor, whilst transgenderism is scarcely touched on during medical training and whilst some people show such antagonism at any point I really can't see that anything, except offering sympathy, care and understanding to everyone involved, transitioning, detransitioning or retransitioning, is what is needed.

Well any study that talks about retransition because Many activists and allies encourage the use of retransition rather than detransition to recognize that gender is a journey that may not necessarily go in a straight line. definitely has an agenda.

People who undergo transition whether or not that includes surgery and hormones or just a change of dress aren't ongoing monitored by health professionals so the number of detransitioners cannot be known. Didn't it emerge from the Tavistock that the sick joke there was soon there'd be no gays at all. Many of the parents who took children there were homophobic and would rather have a trans child than a homosexual one.

The absolute anomaly is that children and young people are said by activists to be able to make these decisions and choices even as minors.

Meanwhile in Scotland sentencing guidelines have been implemented to reflect scientific evidence the brain is not fully developed below the age of 25 www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-60137866

One of the main reasons given for detransitioning is social pressure and family opposition which means acceptance is still a problem.
Not that it was a mistake in the first place? Not that binding the chests of children is the thin end of a dubious wedge? Or that telling them that it is possible to change sex is leading them down the wrong path?

No, of course not - it has to be prejudice and lack of acceptance. It has to be the fault of everyone and everything except the ideology.

The link between trans children and autism has been known for some time. Unless there have been developments I've missed, it is not known whether the link is correlation or causation, but it is there. Similarly, the links with confusion around sexuality.

I didn’t suppose you would have heard of Detransition Awareness Day Trisher.
People who still believe you can change sex or who aren’t denying there’s anything wrong with allowing and/or supporting children changing their bodies by chemical or physical means are unlikely to want to hear from those who have found what a mistake it was.

The information coming out now around detransition is around sexuality, women who have experienced abuse, and those who are autistic. We have absolutely no clue about this cohort of women as there hasnt been time to study the issues.

Who knows? Maybe invest in robots to do the job. Problem solved.

SueDonim

Maybe this mythical shift of women security officers would consist entirely of transwomen.

Perhaps it would. Would that mean they would or would not be entitled to refuse to search a male person?

I hadn'theard of Detransition Awareness day apparentlyit started last year. I'm not sure about the thousands most seem to say less than that. But each individual case must be so difficult for the individual. One of the main reasons given for detransitioning is social pressure and family opposition which means acceptance is still a problem. This is helpful www.verywellhealth.com/detransition-or-retransition-5093126

Maybe this mythical shift of women security officers would consist entirely of transwomen.

So wanting an all female shift at an airport isn't a possibility and isn't feminist- who knew? Now you're just compounding your silliness. You portrayed your plot line as if it was a real possibility today, right now. And no I don't think an all female workforce at an airport is a good idea, because that would be balanced by an all male workforce on a different shift, or hadn't your brain considered that? I think having both sexes working together is best. That way passengers of either sex (whether carrying bombs or weapons or not ??) can be assured of being searched by the appropriate sex officer.

I was asked a silly question Rosie51 I responded with all the possibilities No you weren't and no you didn't. Galaxy's question was most reasonable.

"Mollygo* Yes I was aware it's Detransition Awareness Day. Such heartbreak and tragedy for so many, but the TRAs call them derogatory names and would rather their voices weren't heard. My great fear is how big the numbers will go in the future, given the massively increased numbers of female to male transitions, nearly all of whom have a double mastectomy. There are a lot of culpable people who will be backpeddling like crazy, and deleting tweets and blogs.

I read some figures around detransitioning from Buck Angel the other day. It really worried me, they were talking about thousands.

Did you know that today is Detransition Awareness Day, where those who know their lives have been ruined because they were not stopped from transitioning? Read some of their heartbreaking stories in ‘I am an Observer’.

So wanting an all female shift at an airport isn't a possibility and isn't feminist- who knew?
I was asked a silly question Rosie51 I responded with all the possibilities. Apparently the only feminist response is to say you support the officer and not to look at any of the possible scenarios. Isn't that a bit like thinking women shouldn't think about things or consider anything carefully? Once it was considered that thinking damaged women's reproductive capacities, apparently now it harms their feminism. I reject that completely. If the unexamined life isn't worth living then unexamined feminism is not worth having.

Nothing much changed then?

trisher

It's funny Rosie51 because it's just another example of how unaccepting and discriminatory some people are and how they pretend to be feminist whilst simultaneously denigrating and dismissing females and their requests.

But trisher, your words are almost a perfect description of you, except that I had to add feminist. You twist comments to make them say what you want and deviate from whatever the title is.

trisher

Rosie51 I try to use the term the question is addressed as so if sex and gender is confused i'm not the one responsible .
You asked
Why would you not outright defend a female employee's right not to have to pat down a male passenger in Galaxy's example?
You then made strange and unfounded allegations about my reply. I think the point is if you don't want a reasoned reply don't ask the question. Not one female employee by the way. But a completely female shift including terrorist officers -yeah! But then some one will have to pat down the males!

Strange and unfounded allegations? Are you OK?
a female employee available. In that case the alternatives would seem to be that all shifts employed people of both genders using female at the start and then both genders when obviously both sexes is more in keeping, but hey ho, you do you.

If you are seriously suggesting an airport would ever be staffed solely by females, including all the armed police, then you've lost the plot completely. Just admit it, you made up a silly plot line to excuse yourself from your reluctance to back a female's right not to have to pat down a male, even if that male identified as female. A feminist who won't defend females...hmm

Lathyrus

The term GayEradication is not mine but that of of stated transpolicy.

Once aware of it you have to either agree or disagree. There really is no middle ground.

And if you agree the question is what level of coercion you will support to bring it about.

If you disagree then you have to stand up and say this is wrong.

Firstly whose transpolicy?
Secondly I don't agree with eradicating anyone no matter what their gender, sex, sexual orientation, race, religion, politics or any other of the delineations that patriarchy has traditionally used to seperate and divide people. No intersectional feminist does. Degrees of oppression very but oppression of minorities is how the patriarchy survives. I want to destroy it why would I even consider eliminating any minority?

The term GayEradication is not mine but that of of stated transpolicy.

Once aware of it you have to either agree or disagree. There really is no middle ground.

And if you agree the question is what level of coercion you will support to bring it about.

If you disagree then you have to stand up and say this is wrong.

When I have set off the bleepers in a queue staffed by a male officer he has simply gestured to the nearest female one and she takes over.

Rosie51 I try to use the term the question is addressed as so if sex and gender is confused i'm not the one responsible .
You asked
Why would you not outright defend a female employee's right not to have to pat down a male passenger in Galaxy's example?
You then made strange and unfounded allegations about my reply. I think the point is if you don't want a reasoned reply don't ask the question. Not one female employee by the way. But a completely female shift including terrorist officers -yeah! But then some one will have to pat down the males!

Lathyrus I fully admit I haven't replied. It left me with such astonishment and incredulity that I find it very difficult to say anything.
What is it about Lathyrus' post that astounds you?
How many times have people said on here that the stats on transpeople are deeply flawed at best, as there is (rightly) no central register of people who 'identify' as such? How often have people pointed out that not all gay people (particularly lesbians) are happy to have TQ+ attached to LGB? Or that lesbians are regularly pressured into having sex (or vilified for refusing) on the grounds that a male body with a penis is not (supposedly) significantly different from a female one with a strap-on? Or pointed out that woman are being assaulted in what should be safe spaces? Why are you 'incredulous' to hear these things again?

Lathyrus is not casting a slur on transpeople. S/he is pointing out that some women, gay men and lesbians suffer at the hands of some TRAs. Which is true, and not a slur on the trans community. I have never seen you do anything other than leap to the defence of transpeople when these things come up. Of course you haven't defended the abuse, but you brush it aside by saying things like the law is there to prevent these things and if it is not upheld that is not the fault of transpeople, or that women should campaign to protect single sex spaces - you do similar with your point below about transwomen in female jails:

In 2015-2017 many transwomen died in prison usually at their own hands. some of them were undoubtedly violent people but did they deserve to die? I think not. But of course they are largely forgotten, perhaps because they don't fit the general portrayal of what happens to transwomen.
People can't remember these deaths if they are unaware of them, but anyway, why are trans criminals more important than female ones? The answer should be that trans prisoners are looked after more effectively in sex-appropriate jails, not that they should be foisted on vulnerable women in female ones.

The point is that if changing the law to accommodate transpeople makes women more vulnerable, it shouldn't happen. Not that we should be told about how transpeople suffer more.

What abuses have I ignored Lathyrus? What have I denied?
Are there violent transpeople?-undoubtedly.
Are the majority of transpeople violent ? I doubt that but if you have proof or evidence I will listen.
Do I approve of what you term "GayEradication" well first of all you have no idea of my sexual orientation because I seldom post private information. Nor can you post one exmple of any statement I have made to support that.
Have I ignored you? Well yes I have because as my intersectional feminist friends tell me there is no point in engaging with some people.

If internalised mysogyny is what you chose to call intersectional feminism then that is up to you. It doesn't of course make any allowances for black women who have spent years telling their white sisters that oppression and violence is worse for some women. Still I can see why you would think that, much easier than facing your own privilege.